This is exactly right. It's just throwing red meat to a bunch of right-wing idiots who are convinced that their little Johnny didn't get a scholarship because some big bad minority took it.
There are a couple legitimate ways to justify such restrictions. The one that makes the most sense to me is European sports leagues have limits on the number of non-European players they can have on a roster (for soccer it is typically 2-3). Comparable treatment is reasonably justifiable.
It’s a pretty sweet deal for the foreign athletes. They can get paid tuition, room and board, they get access to exceptional training facilities (compared to their home countries), they can keep their shoe contracts and apparel contracts (so long as they are routed through foreign entities), they can probably even keep appearance fees, just not actual prize money. It actually brings up an interesting lnternarional legal question: are these athletes violating their Visas by being paid NIL money for exposure they are getting in the US? Should that be considered work?
It’s a pretty sweet deal for the foreign athletes. They can get paid tuition, room and board, they get access to exceptional training facilities (compared to their home countries), they can keep their shoe contracts and apparel contracts (so long as they are routed through foreign entities), they can probably even keep appearance fees, just not actual prize money. It actually brings up an interesting lnternarional legal question: are these athletes violating their Visas by being paid NIL money for exposure they are getting in the US? Should that be considered work?
isn't it your favorite bruh Trump who said he'd be an idiot if he didn't figure out how to pay as little tax as possible, using as many loopholes as possible?
if these companies are using foreign subsidiaries to distribute NIL money to international athletes, what's the difference
in track and cross country this is probably almost non-existent. how many international track or cross country athletes are even getting NIL money?
isn't it your favorite bruh Trump who said he'd be an idiot if he didn't figure out how to pay as little tax as possible, using as many loopholes as possible?
if these companies are using foreign subsidiaries to distribute NIL money to international athletes, what's the difference
in track and cross country this is probably almost non-existent. how many international track or cross country athletes are even getting NIL money?
If you think the idea of fungible currency applies here and want to get the idea into this discussion you can put it here. As of now I don't see any reason to do it. Scholarships are not funded by taxpayers, not just athletic ones. The only way American taxpayers are funding the education of athletes at state schools is in the case of in state athletes where about half the cost of attending is funded by money from the state, as is the case for all in state students, athletes or not. In such cases the cost to an athletic department of scholarships to these students is less than for an out of state student whether they're from another country or another state.
I'm sure you could creatively rearrange the debits and credits to make it appear that no taxpayer money is going to foreign scholarships, and much the same I could rearrange them to where they are funded completely with tax dollars. The reality is they are funded by taxpayers at a rate of around 0.50 cents per every dollar (not including the tuition payments made by taxpayers) and that is more than enough for me to call it a theft of taxpayer money.
You are advocating for the dumbing down academically and the watering down athletically of the entire U.S. university system. We have the best university system in the world and it is not even close. Outside of Oxford or Cambridge most people could not name another well known international university. The reason our colleges are the best is because they recruit the best students and athletes in the world. The NCAA was never meant to be for Americans only. We are already losing our influence, standing, and reputation in the world due to the current administrations policies. To limit our colleges ability to get the best people no matter where they are from is unbelievably stupid. The more they screw with higher ed the more the quality of our schools will plummet and the less influence we will be able to assert on the world stage. So go ahead with your move towards making the NCAA the JV league you want. Maybe they can spend the extra federal money on participation trophies for everyone so their feeling wont get hurt.
I'm not convinced that lazy NCAA coaches bringing in rosters of 13:30-40 failed pro Kenyans contributes to our Universities' international reputation or our position on the world stage. If you have noticed there is actually a pretty consistent inverse correlation between the academic merit of an institution and the amount of Kenyans on their squad. I fact I don't think there is a single one in the Ivy League.
I have no problem with our colleges getting the "best people", if we are talking about geniuses that go to MIT and such. However, American public universities exist primarily to serve the state residents that fund them. This is why in-state residents are often given an easier time getting in and academic scholarships that are not available for other residents. If you want to hypocrisy burn me and call all of this DEI, again that gaslighting doesn't phase me as I have previously explained.
Limiting foreign scholarships will not turn the NCAA into a "JV league", I'm not suggesting giving these scholarships to 4:30 milers. What I am saying as if the scholarship is between an American 17 year old that has run 8:55 and a Kenyan 10 years older that is a bit faster, it should go the American. I would expect any other country to do the same. While my personal 5k PR might make me one of the fastest men in many small European countries, I do not expect them to pay for my 200,000 dollar University education over someone who is born there and will stay there after. I'm not sure why the U.S. is held to some other standard.
Ironically the first Kenyan runner ever to complete in the NCAA ran for Cornell in the early 60s (or so.)
There are no tuition payments made to scholarship athletes that aren't made for every other in state student at a state university. You don't want to believe this so there's no point in discussing this with you any further.
You are advocating for the dumbing down academically and the watering down athletically of the entire U.S. university system. We have the best university system in the world and it is not even close. Outside of Oxford or Cambridge most people could not name another well known international university. The reason our colleges are the best is because they recruit the best students and athletes in the world. The NCAA was never meant to be for Americans only. We are already losing our influence, standing, and reputation in the world due to the current administrations policies. To limit our colleges ability to get the best people no matter where they are from is unbelievably stupid. The more they screw with higher ed the more the quality of our schools will plummet and the less influence we will be able to assert on the world stage. So go ahead with your move towards making the NCAA the JV league you want. Maybe they can spend the extra federal money on participation trophies for everyone so their feeling wont get hurt.
I'm not convinced that lazy NCAA coaches bringing in rosters of 13:30-40 failed pro Kenyans contributes to our Universities' international reputation or our position on the world stage. If you have noticed there is actually a pretty consistent inverse correlation between the academic merit of an institution and the amount of Kenyans on their squad. I fact I don't think there is a single one in the Ivy League.
I have no problem with our colleges getting the "best people", if we are talking about geniuses that go to MIT and such. However, American public universities exist primarily to serve the state residents that fund them. This is why in-state residents are often given an easier time getting in and academic scholarships that are not available for other residents. If you want to hypocrisy burn me and call all of this DEI, again that gaslighting doesn't phase me as I have previously explained.
Limiting foreign scholarships will not turn the NCAA into a "JV league", I'm not suggesting giving these scholarships to 4:30 milers. What I am saying as if the scholarship is between an American 17 year old that has run 8:55 and a Kenyan 10 years older that is a bit faster, it should go the American. I would expect any other country to do the same. While my personal 5k PR might make me one of the fastest men in many small European countries, I do not expect them to pay for my 200,000 dollar University education over someone who is born there and will stay there after. I'm not sure why the U.S. is held to some other standard.
"American public universities exist primarily to serve the state residents that fund them."
This blatently false. Of the roughly 6500 colleges and universities in the US, only around 1955 of them are state schools. A large number of those schools are doing the majority of the research in various fields that lead to huge breakthroughs for society in general. Those schools will not and should not lower standards to accomodate Americans. They also will not and should not have a seperate set of rules for athletes over general students. College coaches want to win and should be able to recruit the best people. If you want more developmental opportunities stop thinking that D1 is the only option. If you are a developmental kid D1 is probably the worst option available and has been for 30 years. American kids do not deserve to get these spots because they are Americans. Our sport is about as black and white as it gets. Why would you ever want to take a spot from someone that is obviously better than you? Go to D2, D3, NAIA. Have a great experience and develop as an athlete in a good situation for you. 2/3rds of D1 aer more like D2 2.0 anyways. Mid majors are where talented developmental kids go to die.
There are no tuition payments made to scholarship athletes that aren't made for every other in state student at a state university. You don't want to believe this so there's no point in discussing this with you any further.
I don't think I ever argued differently. I am ok with tax money funding the education of Americans. (athlete or not) I am not ok with it being used to prop up Kenya's C league. It seems like we don't disagree on the facts of where the money comes from, just this crucial issue.
I'm not convinced that lazy NCAA coaches bringing in rosters of 13:30-40 failed pro Kenyans contributes to our Universities' international reputation or our position on the world stage. If you have noticed there is actually a pretty consistent inverse correlation between the academic merit of an institution and the amount of Kenyans on their squad. I fact I don't think there is a single one in the Ivy League.
I have no problem with our colleges getting the "best people", if we are talking about geniuses that go to MIT and such. However, American public universities exist primarily to serve the state residents that fund them. This is why in-state residents are often given an easier time getting in and academic scholarships that are not available for other residents. If you want to hypocrisy burn me and call all of this DEI, again that gaslighting doesn't phase me as I have previously explained.
Limiting foreign scholarships will not turn the NCAA into a "JV league", I'm not suggesting giving these scholarships to 4:30 milers. What I am saying as if the scholarship is between an American 17 year old that has run 8:55 and a Kenyan 10 years older that is a bit faster, it should go the American. I would expect any other country to do the same. While my personal 5k PR might make me one of the fastest men in many small European countries, I do not expect them to pay for my 200,000 dollar University education over someone who is born there and will stay there after. I'm not sure why the U.S. is held to some other standard.
American kids do not deserve to get these spots because they are Americans.
Well I will concede you are partially correct, I am not advocating for full rides for every 4:30 miler with a blue passport. But Americans absolutely have a right to have their college league be primarily made of up of Americans. We just broke world records in three distance events in the span of about a week. The guys I am talking about are not DEI runners, they will still need to perform to keep a spot on a college team, just not against men almost old enough to be their fathers from well known doping hotspots. No other country is expected to provide free college educations to foreigners because they may have a faster 5k time than someone born there, nor should they be. It is hilarious to me how the rest of the world loves to criticize us, but freaks out when we slightly tighten the free money faucet.
"Deserve" may not be the right word. I guess if you want to be really philosophical about it does anyone "deserve" a college degree for being able to run in circles fast? That answer is above my pay grade, but if we are giving tax funded scholarships scholarships, than yes the person who is born here had first dibs. You may not agree, but again, I would bet you a lot of money the majority of voters would and that is what matters. Not what you think it "should" be.
Former small college AD here. Here is the way it works - Each sport has a designated number of scholarships. So track has about 12 for men and 18 for women (at least that is how it used to be). So, if you give any of those scholarships to international students, those scholarships do not go to US students. This is done at the school level, so the feds and state have nothing to do with it. We had about 50 international students per year across all of our sports that received full rides. If there were no international students, those scholarships would have gone to US students.
I think both sides have very good arguments. I think there is room for compromise somewhere in between. I hope something can be done to limit foreign participation, whether it be age or numbers restrictions. With that said, I think opportunities should still exist for foreign students but just not without SOME restriction. In academia there are some restrictions in terms of aid and scholarships at some schools.
There are no tuition payments made to scholarship athletes that aren't made for every other in state student at a state university. You don't want to believe this so there's no point in discussing this with you any further.
I don't think I ever argued differently. I am ok with tax money funding the education of Americans. (athlete or not) I am not ok with it being used to prop up Kenya's C league. It seems like we don't disagree on the facts of where the money comes from, just this crucial issue.
No. We disagree. No tax money is being used to prop up any Kenyan.
I don't think I ever argued differently. I am ok with tax money funding the education of Americans. (athlete or not) I am not ok with it being used to prop up Kenya's C league. It seems like we don't disagree on the facts of where the money comes from, just this crucial issue.
No. We disagree. No tax money is being used to prop up any Kenyan.
The reality is when a Kenyan comes to the U.S. on an athletic scholarship, they are almost always paying 0% out of pocket. The money for their tuition, books, lodging, and food has to come from somewhere, it is not conjured out of thin air, nor is it coming from the Kenyan government. We can argue all day about who exactly pays this bill and of what percentage, but ultimately it is the U.S. taxpayer, whether through ticket sales, tuition payments, taxes, or any of the other 1000 things that contribute to the University's large pot of fungible currency. The fact that some American students might also have their tuition covered in a similar way is irrelevant, as again, they are citizens. I simply do want to fund foreigners at the expense of Americans, and you do. We must agree to disagree.
Here is the way scholarships work at all but a few very rich schools. There is no money that changes hands. It is discount. Meaning that the cost for tuition, room, and board are waived. So, the bills of the college are paid by the students who pay, and that money comes from taxpayers in the form of Pell or grants. I am not taking sides, but wanted to clarify how college budgets work.
I haven't checked on letstennis.com or letsgolf.com to see if there is the same level of whining that goes on this website. However, at the NCAA D1 level tennis and golf in both the men's and women's teams there is a far higher percentage of foreigners that make up their teams than anything compared to XC teams. Yes, OKS and NM are very high but there are more teams in tennis and golf with the same numbers. For every NM Men's XC team you will easily have 10 more tennis teams with all foreign student/athletes.
Well the good thing about being the most powerful country in the world is that we don't have to justify ourselves to anyone else.
So yeah, I support the "free market" when I can buy 100 dollar shoes from China and I don't when a 28 year old man is taking my son's scholarship. People support things that benefit them and oppose things that harm them, isn't that crazy? Does that make me a hypocrite? You seem to think so. I just think it's common sense.
Then your son should run faster. Stop crying about him getting a scholarship and work harder. He would just get in because of DEI otherwise.
I appreciate your suggestion, but I think I will actually just contact my state representatives to have them pass laws that benefit the people who already live here. I wish you luck in your mission to convince middle America to fund the Olympic development of East Africa, but I feel that it is a doomed one.
Former small college AD here. Here is the way it works - Each sport has a designated number of scholarships. So track has about 12 for men and 18 for women (at least that is how it used to be). So, if you give any of those scholarships to international students, those scholarships do not go to US students. This is done at the school level, so the feds and state have nothing to do with it. We had about 50 international students per year across all of our sports that received full rides. If there were no international students, those scholarships would have gone to US students.
I appreciate your point... But there just seems to be something unamerican about not allowing our young home grown collegiate runners to experience the humiliation of getting lapped by the Wilson Waigwas and the Niall O'Shaughnessys and the Henry Ronos of this generation.... like us old guys got to.
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