You don't, you just ban caffeine above certain levels in the post-race urine sample (way beyond what a bar of chocolate would give you). I'm pretty sure the NCAA used to do this. I don't agree with banning caffeine, but it would be easy to implement.
Times are meaningless now. A sub 4 mile used to be special for high school and college. Now it’s commonplace.
You could've said this about times when tracks were converted from cinder to synthetic tracks. What matters is competition. Times will always be relative. A 2:09 marathon isn't what it was 10, 20 or 30+ years ago. And that's OK, because if you understand anything about sports you take the difference in tech and nutrition into consideration. Plus doping controls are a lot better now than back than. So even though athletes have better shoes and legal supplements now compared to the 90s, 80s and beyond. Athletes at the elite level can't just take "reindeer milk" and "turtle soup" like they did back than.
Then why do so many people here equate faster times today with being better than former athletes.
Kratom is definitely will boost performance. It dulls pain and increases focus. I’d stay away from red vein but I have been using green maeng da before hard workouts and races for years. I do mostly rowing for fun now, but I wish I had it during my competitive running days. I’ve even taken baking soda on top of it, not bi-carb just a half teaspoon an hour before.
I take red maeng da because it helps me relax and sleep.. can't imagine that would improve performance.. guess I gotta give green a try ha
I mean seriously? We all know super shoes have played a huge role in the drop of times the past 5 years but in the last 2 years since Maurten released their Bicarb gel in 2023, look how much faster everyone is running. Not just the top of the top but everyone overall. This product is totally legal sure, but how is it different from any other doping that has been outlawed? It’s “natural” you could say as it is naturally made in your body and isn’t a synthetic drug you are injecting or consuming like steroids per se, but so is HGH. Blood doping is technically natural as well as it is quite literally using your own blood to give yourself an advantage… This is not like a supplement you can take everyday such as Tart cherry that can give small recovery benefits. It quite literally is changing the chemical pH and affecting the acid-base system your body naturally has…
I mean it has been banned in horse racing because it has been seen as a performance enhancing drug since the 80’s. So why is it so openly accepted in the track world? We do not know long term side effects of ingesting this substance anyways. It already has horrible side effects like putting you on the toilet all day, so imagine over time what effects it may have on your GI tract long term? Ulcers? Chronic diarrhea? I mean we have no idea. Anyways, I digress. I am surprised more people aren’t talking about this. What do you guys think? Is it ruining track?
This isn't rocket science. It's basic chemistry and has been used in food manufacturing for decades but never formulated specifically for human endurance performance. The science is basic, as per other posts have already noted, the main issue was the intestinal side effects. Maurten solved the delivery component by surrounding bi-carb pills with a neutral gel which in this case is Xanthum Gum which is a thickening binder used in most gluten free foods, cellulose (adds more bulk), starch (more thickening), and sugars with some flavor. That's it!
You can make you own and pay WAY LESS money if you wanted. NO BAN NEEDED!!!
You could've said this about times when tracks were converted from cinder to synthetic tracks. What matters is competition. Times will always be relative. A 2:09 marathon isn't what it was 10, 20 or 30+ years ago. And that's OK, because if you understand anything about sports you take the difference in tech and nutrition into consideration. Plus doping controls are a lot better now than back than. So even though athletes have better shoes and legal supplements now compared to the 90s, 80s and beyond. Athletes at the elite level can't just take "reindeer milk" and "turtle soup" like they did back than.
Then why do so many people here equate faster times today with being better than former athletes.
I'm not aware of anyone arguing that runners today are inherently better than the runners of previous generations. I think most people realize that Peter Snell in his prime would still be competitive against the modern competition much faster today. Are they faster today, yes. But this reminds me of a Ted talk from 10 years ago:
I guess I view innovations like this as part of the sport (or of many sports). Did EVA foam ruin the sport decades ago, or wicking fabrics, or non-cinder track composites, or GPS watches? Granted, this innovation is, seemingly, a more abrupt sea change, on the heels of others like super-foams and high-carb gels (or even Wavelight on the track), but I suppose I don't see how innovating a technology that evolves the sport means it's ruined.
I know that records, all of them, will fall in part due to advances in training, technology, etc., and this is, possibly, yet another example of that.
Way off. Should we ban caffeine as well? Protein? Maurten removed the risk of GI distress, simple as that. Bicarb is a natural ergogenic aid. Tart cherry juice, like beet juice is a vasodilator. The new thing for recovery seems to be ketones. Natural as well. Are you going to ban that as well? The world moves on, you should join in on the innovations.
I’d love to understand how many of the top athletes are using it now. Letsrun did an article on that last year, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers have increased since then.
Brojos / JG / Thoughtsleader, can you ask athletes about this in upcoming press conferences?
Has anybody tried moderate hyperventilation before the 800 meters or 1,500 meters? That would change pH without the bowel blowout or cost of Maurten.
I have to wonder about reduced oxygen delivery in the beginning because the hemoglobin curve shifts with pH. It does seem that taking Maurten right before the gun goes off would be more effective in a 5k or 10k race.
However, I don't like the monopoly Maurten has on the product and the ridiculous price gouging this allows them to do. It certainly seems like if a supplement is cost-prohibitive for most athletes (especially college students, where some schools give it for free) it shouldn't be allowed.
Maurten has marketed pretty well- nothing suggests other brands couldn't produce the exact same thing for a fraction of the $70 Maurten charges for 4 servings. Only special equipment would be a pill press for the bicarb/food-grade xanthan gum etc. However the ratios are hard to get exact for much of it.
Just my two cents having tried it for a handful of races/workouts. In the past before Maurten's product was out/I could access it I would just choke down ~25 grams of pure bicarbonate 2 hours before my races and it seemed to work okay and not give me any stomach issues aside from burping. Now I have access to Maurten's product and tried it in a workout recently but didn't notice as much of an effect as the pure stuff.
I don't know how maurten's system prevents the bicarbonate itself from getting into stomach acid but still allows it to get to the muscles, not sure it fully works since I burped a bunch when I took it. I think a big factor in the presence of Maurten is taste, way more enjoyable to eat hydrogel than pure baking soda. One could argue that the product levels the playing field now that ability to ingest bicarb is less dependent on individual ability to tolerate it raw in stomach acid.
It quite literally is changing the chemical pH and affecting the acid-base system your body naturally has…
It really isn't. Learn some real biochemistry, the source of the acidity. It's ATP turnover and ingesting sodium bicarbonate can't prevent that, however much anyone tries to say otherwise.
Fatigue is a multifactorial process that includes acidosis. Relatively less acidosis thanks to more availability of bicarbonate per hydrogel transport probably leads to superior buffering:
H(+) + HCO3(-) --> H2CO3 ...
Relatively less acidosis results in less impairment of muscle contraction and less inhibitory chemoreceptor feedback to the brain that could otherwise play a role in signaling an increase in respiratory drive. If said respiratory compensation would occur at a greater work rate, it can then be reasoned that acidosis is relatively reduced compared to before Maurten bicarb intake, and the athlete can handle a relatively greater work rate before respiratory compensation must occur.
Even slight reductions in any one component leading to peripheral and/or central fatigue can be a substantial performance benefit.
The study of the origin and implications of fatigue in exercise has been widely investigated, but not completely understood given the complex multifactorial mechanisms involved. Then, it is essential to understand the fatigue...
It bothered me recently to find out that certain colleges are having team meetings about bicarb and giving it to their athletes for free. I find this mindset questionable, as I don't agree with promoting substances to collegiate athletes that are purely for performance enhancement/not for health. I know it's not illegal, it just seems off.
Doping is a legal matter. If it’s legal it’s fair game, end of story.
However, I don't like the monopoly Maurten has on the product and the ridiculous price gouging this allows them to do. It certainly seems like if a supplement is cost-prohibitive for most athletes (especially college students, where some schools give it for free) it shouldn't be allowed.
Maurten has marketed pretty well- nothing suggests other brands couldn't produce the exact same thing for a fraction of the $70 Maurten charges for 4 servings. Only special equipment would be a pill press for the bicarb/food-grade xanthan gum etc. However the ratios are hard to get exact for much of it.
Just my two cents having tried it for a handful of races/workouts. In the past before Maurten's product was out/I could access it I would just choke down ~25 grams of pure bicarbonate 2 hours before my races and it seemed to work okay and not give me any stomach issues aside from burping. Now I have access to Maurten's product and tried it in a workout recently but didn't notice as much of an effect as the pure stuff.
I don't know how maurten's system prevents the bicarbonate itself from getting into stomach acid but still allows it to get to the muscles, not sure it fully works since I burped a bunch when I took it. I think a big factor in the presence of Maurten is taste, way more enjoyable to eat hydrogel than pure baking soda. One could argue that the product levels the playing field now that ability to ingest bicarb is less dependent on individual ability to tolerate it raw in stomach acid.
Very little discussion on here how you all are ingesting it.
Other than the Maurten pill, how are you all ingesting the pure bicarbonate? Are you all mixing in water or Powerade and drinking it down like Colonoscopy Prep?
Lot of discussion on here, but little useful/practical information.
Again, how exactly are people actually ingesting pure bicarbonate of soda?
As others have noted - sodium bicarbonate research for human exercise performance has been around for a long time. Some of the first papers on it came out in the 1930s.
Maurten is great at marketing. There is nothing inherently special about their product - people will claim the hydrogel helps with delivery, however similar claims have been made about their CHO gels, which are not always supported by scientific research.
Cheaper options do exist, including enteric coated capsules, which prevents them from being broken down by the acidity of the stomach. These will allow you to get the dose required (200-300mg/kg body mass) without the negative side effects of trying to consume straight baking soda. You can get a contained of 100 capsules containing 840 mg for like $10-15.
Worth noting - the scientific research on this (and trust me, there's a lot of it) has only shown an effect on events lasting ~45s to 8min. Some new work has tried to combine it with other supplements (ketones) or time it to maximize sprint performance at the end of a long cycling race, but the effects there are less clear.
