Feeling is perception — there is obviously no objective measurement of how I subjectively feel. Or do you really believe we can objectively measure people‘s sense of wellbeing?
There is no addiction angle. 8ish hours is 60mpw for me. I’ve never exceeded 72mpw. The only time I’ve trained more in a week was on a bike, and that was 12-14 hours a week during Covid lockdowns.
That being said, I have years of data showing better sleep and greater productivity at work when my training is consistent.
So you cant take measurements then? Even improvements in training / racing performances can be measured. Or do you just go by “feel”.
And as for consistency…do you have to be beyond 8 hours of training to be seen as consistent? Really? Of course not. You could be doing 2 hours a week or less, and as long as it was each week, every week, that would be consistent. In fact, the very idea that your training volume is so yo yo in nature implies anything but consistency.
Of course I can measure racing performances, just like I can measure my height and weight. Racing performance improving as a result of well-structured, higher volume training is an expected result. The question however was regarding my perception of well-being, which is definitely independent of my race results, and is a qualitative, subjective matter, only really quantifiable if you ask me to give you a number from 1-10 or whatever.
My training volume is not yo yo in nature, and I didn’t write that at any point. Covid lockdowns were 4+ years ago — the fact that there has been some variation over the last 100+ weeks between two disciplines cannot fairly be described as “yo yo” — indeed the last five years have been the most consistent training in my life. Consistency comes from a mostly daily training regimen, with occasional rest days, periods of illness, etc. I’ve been training for two decades, and in that time did have some periods of lesser consistency or even bigger breaks. This has given me a strong sense that at least 5, but more like 8+ hours a week gives my sense of well-being a solid basis.
2 hours a week would be 17 minutes a day. While that would indeed be “consistent” in the strictest definition of the word, the fact that you’re taking the time to focus on extreme interpretations of common training terminology makes your argument, if you indeed have one other than trying to nitpick, less cogent, not more. Most people on this board will understand that consistent training implies at least a moderate volume, mostly daily volume, simply because most people don’t go for 10 min runs.
Thanks for your insight. What supplements are you taking?
Yes I did want to have a heart CT and MRI tests performed. But my health insurance denied the tests.
Reason was when I did the treadmill stress test, my Bruce protocol results (level 9) put me in the healthy superior category.
What a Paradox I'm in with the Health insurance. On one hand my.health insurance says I have high calcium. But my treadmill test says I am healthy,and no.needs flr.further testing.
Would i
Would'nt be cheaper to run the tests now than down the road 10 years pay for heart surgery?
Rather than list everything I take, I did a chatGPT search and came up with this list. I take everything on this list, except nattokinase and garlic extract. If I were in your position, I would add both of those to my routine. I will find out what statin my friend is taking. The approach is to take the statin until calcium is <100 and then discontinue the statin and monitor calcium levels while taking supplements instead.
ChatGPT wrote:
Reducing high arterial calcium levels (often associated with arterial calcification) requires a combination of dietary changes, lifestyle modifications, and specific supplements that support cardiovascular health. Here are some key supplements that may help:
### **1. Vitamin K2 (MK-7)** - Helps direct calcium away from arteries and into bones. - Activates matrix Gla protein (MGP), which prevents arterial calcification. - **Dosage:** 100-200 mcg per day.
### **2. Magnesium** - Helps regulate calcium metabolism and prevent excess calcium deposition in arteries. - Supports endothelial function and reduces arterial stiffness. - **Dosage:** 200-400 mg per day (magnesium citrate, glycinate, or malate).
### **3. Vitamin D3** - Works synergistically with Vitamin K2 to regulate calcium absorption. - **Dosage:** 1000-5000 IU per day (ensure adequate K2 intake to prevent calcium misplacement).
### **4. Omega-3 Fatty Acids (EPA & DHA)** - Reduces inflammation and arterial stiffness. - Helps improve lipid profile and overall cardiovascular health. - **Dosage:** 1000-3000 mg of combined EPA/DHA per day.
### **5. Nattokinase** - A natural enzyme that helps break down fibrin and improve blood flow. - May reduce arterial plaque and calcification over time. - **Dosage:** 100-200 mg per day on an empty stomach.
### **6. Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10)** - Supports mitochondrial function and improves endothelial health. - Reduces oxidative stress, which can contribute to arterial calcification. - **Dosage:** 100-300 mg per day (Ubiquinol form is more bioavailable).
### **7. Boron** - May help regulate calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus metabolism. - Supports bone and cardiovascular health. - **Dosage:** 3-10 mg per day.
### **8. L-Arginine & L-Citrulline** - Helps improve nitric oxide (NO) production, which relaxes blood vessels. - Can reduce arterial stiffness and improve circulation. - **Dosage:** 2-6 g per day.
### **9. Curcumin (Turmeric Extract)** - Powerful anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. - May help reduce oxidative stress in arteries and prevent calcium buildup. - **Dosage:** 500-1000 mg per day with black pepper extract (piperine) for better absorption.
### **10. Aged Garlic Extract** - Has been shown in studies to slow down and even reverse arterial calcification. - Improves blood vessel flexibility and reduces oxidative stress. - **Dosage:** 600-1200 mg per day.
### **Lifestyle Considerations** - **Reduce processed foods & sugar intake:** Excess sugar and processed foods contribute to arterial inflammation and calcification. - **Increase leafy greens & cruciferous vegetables:** Rich in Vitamin K1, which supports arterial health. - **Stay active:** Regular exercise helps improve circulation and arterial elasticity. - **Maintain optimal blood pressure & blood sugar levels:** High blood sugar and hypertension contribute to arterial calcification.
Would you like a specific supplement regimen based on your health and fitness level?
Curcumin isn't very bioavailable. See Derek Lowe's excellent analysis. As for the rest it looks like wishful thinking.
I am near old enough to collect social security. When I tell people I run, they often exclaim how I will need knee replacement soon. My reply is that they have the wrong model of the body. They think of it as a car. You use the brakes, they wear down, and eventually you need new ones. If that applied to people, then going to the gym and lifting weights would use up your muscle tissue and you would soon be a pile of jelly on the floor. Instead you get stronger, because you body says that was not enough muscle, better build more.
Next they will tell me about Joe or Sam who did who knows what crazy thing. I tell them, if you cut your finger the skin grows back and tougher than before. If you cut your finger off, it does not grow back. Same with working out. There is a point where you have cut your finger off.
The annual running injury rate of up to 70%+ ( depending on the source) would indicate that many are attempting to “cut their fingers off” on a regular basis.
Of course the nature of running injuries implies that many do not know they are about to cut their fingers off, until they have actually done it. But by then, it is often too late. Like the person who thinks that they are skilled with the knife, until time proves they actually aren’t, many runners think that their bodies can handle training loads, until their bodies prove that they can’t. However, unlike the knife wielder, who once cut, probably takes a lot more care in future, most runners come back from one injury and recklessly build up to where they were before, and expect a different result. Of course, most times there isn’t. Isn’t that the definition of insanity? 🤔
A lot of injuries are outside of our control. Like FAI.
I'll take my chances. Go to the grocery store or any public event and witness the amount of obese people in attendance. It's staggering, talk about bad for your heart. Ever see an old obese person? Me neither.
I had a friend who, as an expatriot American, lived in the UK with a British woman. When they traveled from England to the American locale where he was raised, in Minnesota, and they entered the airport there, he once looked around and commented. He said: "The BLOBS! So many of them. We're back in America."
Excuse me, as I must cut this short...I have to catch a plane to Oklahoma City. Mmmm! Chicken-fried steak for dinner! And I am still overstuffed from eating holiday turkey with lotsa gravy! That won't stop me from overeating again!
I read the article and then asked ChatGPT to provide an expanded outline of his book. Condensing his book down to one sentence, its message would be "All things in moderation." However, just restating Aristotle's famous quote wouldn't sell many books, so his marketing approach is...
1. Make a bunch of controversial statements.
2. Pick an outlier to defend your controversial point, ie, marathoning is bad for your health.
3. Ignore the fact that less than 1 in 270 adults ran a marathon last year. Ignore that even fewer of these marathoners train "hard." Ignore proven quality of life issues. Cherry pick data to support your controversial statement.
4. Make the marketing approach of your book appeal to your target market, ie, fat, non-exercisers.
5. In the book itself, cushion all your controversial points with the book's main premise... all things in moderation.
Sure, his marketing upsets us, be we aren't his target market.
This explantaion of the process, also seems like a blueprint to run a politicl campaign....
I had a friend who, as an expatriot American, lived in the UK with a British woman. When they traveled from England to the American locale where he was raised, in Minnesota, and they entered the airport there, he once looked around and commented. He said: "The BLOBS! So many of them. We're back in America."
Excuse me, as I must cut this short...I have to catch a plane to Oklahoma City. Mmmm! Chicken-fried steak for dinner! And I am still overstuffed from eating holiday turkey with lotsa gravy! That won't stop me from overeating again!
So you cant take measurements then? Even improvements in training / racing performances can be measured. Or do you just go by “feel”.
And as for consistency…do you have to be beyond 8 hours of training to be seen as consistent? Really? Of course not. You could be doing 2 hours a week or less, and as long as it was each week, every week, that would be consistent. In fact, the very idea that your training volume is so yo yo in nature implies anything but consistency.
Of course I can measure racing performances, just like I can measure my height and weight. Racing performance improving as a result of well-structured, higher volume training is an expected result. The question however was regarding my perception of well-being, which is definitely independent of my race results, and is a qualitative, subjective matter, only really quantifiable if you ask me to give you a number from 1-10 or whatever.
My training volume is not yo yo in nature, and I didn’t write that at any point. Covid lockdowns were 4+ years ago — the fact that there has been some variation over the last 100+ weeks between two disciplines cannot fairly be described as “yo yo” — indeed the last five years have been the most consistent training in my life. Consistency comes from a mostly daily training regimen, with occasional rest days, periods of illness, etc. I’ve been training for two decades, and in that time did have some periods of lesser consistency or even bigger breaks. This has given me a strong sense that at least 5, but more like 8+ hours a week gives my sense of well-being a solid basis.
2 hours a week would be 17 minutes a day. While that would indeed be “consistent” in the strictest definition of the word, the fact that you’re taking the time to focus on extreme interpretations of common training terminology makes your argument, if you indeed have one other than trying to nitpick, less cogent, not more. Most people on this board will understand that consistent training implies at least a moderate volume, mostly daily volume, simply because most people don’t go for 10 min runs.
Three points…
1) If you’ve been going between 5 and 8 hours a week, that would certainly indicate a certain amount of yo yoing in terms of volume, and / or a lack of consistency.
2) Of course you can measure well being (physical) at least by metrics such as race results and training progress…if you weren’t physically well, performances would stagnate or regress, not go forward.
3) And the whiff of addiction still stands. In your original post you claim that you have built up to this volume and actually wonder how you / your body would fare without it. Which sounds awfully like an addict who builds up a tolerance to the drugs they are taking and then has to move on to more, more often or stronger, just to get the high they once had. Of course, you, as they would, will deny being addicted, probably believe that you have it all under control.
M66 here. Been running 49 years. Article behind an email wall so I’m referencing those who did read it. So tired of the click-bait targeting the massive masses. Of course, with 65% of people being obese you can make a lot of money telling them things they want to hear. Diets are bad and you don’t need to exercise….much.
My real-world experience is I have indeed found that a surprisingly high number of my same-age running peers have Afib or other heart rhythm issues. Personally, I’ve never had heart or rhythm issues.
However, a MUCH LARGER group of my same age peers either are, in fact, DEAD, or have multiple medical conditions and live rather painful, unpleasant lives.
I guess in this age of stupidity one must state the obvious: being fat and not exercising is --follow me closely here—Not good for you!
And these types of studies general focus on the effects of “endurance exercise,” but if intensity is the real culprit, wouldn’t middle-aged middle-distance runners and sprinters be at significant risk?
Apparently not. In The Inside Running Podcast interview with Dr Andre le Gerche in post #26, Gerche identifies the primary risk as long sustained periods at relatively high intensity. He specifically mentions marathon pace runs. Obviously, long tempos would fall within this "relatively high intensity" as well. he alludes to tempo runs, but I don't remember him specifically mentioning them when speaking on this topic.
Also, competitive marathon training stresses the immune system. An impaired immune system has been linked to almost all the major diseases of seniors. It's not the intensity per se, it's the duration of the intensity.
Curiously, short term very high intensity exercise (SIT... sprint interval training) has significant T-boosting and anti-aging benefits. I do SIT at least 3x/week, although only one is a running workout.
EDITED TO ADD: Interestingly, Dr Gerche is apparently still doing these workouts, as he plans to compete in some major events in 2025. I didn't ID what he's doing to prevent problems from these workouts, but I was listening while doing other things so maybe I missed it.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Thanks for your insight. What supplements are you taking?
Yes I did want to have a heart CT and MRI tests performed. But my health insurance denied the tests.
Reason was when I did the treadmill stress test, my Bruce protocol results (level 9) put me in the healthy superior category.
What a Paradox I'm in with the Health insurance. On one hand my.health insurance says I have high calcium. But my treadmill test says I am healthy,and no.needs flr.further testing.
Would i
Would'nt be cheaper to run the tests now than down the road 10 years pay for heart surgery?
Rather than list everything I take, I did a chatGPT search and came up with this list. I take everything on this list, except nattokinase and garlic extract. If I were in your position, I would add both of those to my routine. I will find out what statin my friend is taking. The approach is to take the statin until calcium is <100 and then discontinue the statin and monitor calcium levels while taking supplements instead.
ChatGPT wrote:
Reducing high arterial calcium levels (often associated with arterial calcification) requires a combination of dietary changes, lifestyle modifications, and specific supplements that support cardiovascular health. Here are some key supplements that may help:
### **1. Vitamin K2 (MK-7)** - Helps direct calcium away from arteries and into bones. - Activates matrix Gla protein (MGP), which prevents arterial calcification. - **Dosage:** 100-200 mcg per day.
### **2. Magnesium** - Helps regulate calcium metabolism and prevent excess calcium deposition in arteries. - Supports endothelial function and reduces arterial stiffness. - **Dosage:** 200-400 mg per day (magnesium citrate, glycinate, or malate).
### **3. Vitamin D3** - Works synergistically with Vitamin K2 to regulate calcium absorption. - **Dosage:** 1000-5000 IU per day (ensure adequate K2 intake to prevent calcium misplacement).
### **4. Omega-3 Fatty Acids (EPA & DHA)** - Reduces inflammation and arterial stiffness. - Helps improve lipid profile and overall cardiovascular health. - **Dosage:** 1000-3000 mg of combined EPA/DHA per day.
### **5. Nattokinase** - A natural enzyme that helps break down fibrin and improve blood flow. - May reduce arterial plaque and calcification over time. - **Dosage:** 100-200 mg per day on an empty stomach.
### **6. Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10)** - Supports mitochondrial function and improves endothelial health. - Reduces oxidative stress, which can contribute to arterial calcification. - **Dosage:** 100-300 mg per day (Ubiquinol form is more bioavailable).
### **7. Boron** - May help regulate calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus metabolism. - Supports bone and cardiovascular health. - **Dosage:** 3-10 mg per day.
### **8. L-Arginine & L-Citrulline** - Helps improve nitric oxide (NO) production, which relaxes blood vessels. - Can reduce arterial stiffness and improve circulation. - **Dosage:** 2-6 g per day.
### **9. Curcumin (Turmeric Extract)** - Powerful anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties. - May help reduce oxidative stress in arteries and prevent calcium buildup. - **Dosage:** 500-1000 mg per day with black pepper extract (piperine) for better absorption.
### **10. Aged Garlic Extract** - Has been shown in studies to slow down and even reverse arterial calcification. - Improves blood vessel flexibility and reduces oxidative stress. - **Dosage:** 600-1200 mg per day.
### **Lifestyle Considerations** - **Reduce processed foods & sugar intake:** Excess sugar and processed foods contribute to arterial inflammation and calcification. - **Increase leafy greens & cruciferous vegetables:** Rich in Vitamin K1, which supports arterial health. - **Stay active:** Regular exercise helps improve circulation and arterial elasticity. - **Maintain optimal blood pressure & blood sugar levels:** High blood sugar and hypertension contribute to arterial calcification.
Would you like a specific supplement regimen based on your health and fitness level?
Wow thanks! Yes, I would be interested in a supplement regimen.1st four listed already take.
My fitness level:
62 years old.
Ran several 5k's last summer 19:45-20:15
Did a bunch of 1 mile 5:52-6:05.
8k 35 flat and 10k 43:52
Weekly mileage is consistently 40/week.Don't run over 6 at a time due to knee gets sore when I get up around 7-8.
I do travel a little. Italy 3/year. Mexico ~ 6/year. Domestic a few/ month.
This is site dominated by hobby distance runners, so they naturally don’t want to hear that all the time they are sinking into high mileage and recovery from it is useless at the least and harmful at worst.
As for “fun”, I suspect it is at least a bit of a self delusion. I enjoy running and lifting, but there are many other things in life that I can do that are at least as much or much more satisfying. Is running really more fun than sex, time with family and friends, eating delicious food, learning new things, the arts, travel, and so many other things? I imagine high mileage running is truly the most fun thing one could be doing if they are extremely narrow in what they enjoy and/or can access.
You can run and also do all the things you mentioned. Nothing is stopping you.
What you are saying is not mutually exclusive with what I said. One could also watch porn 10 hours a week and also do all the other things for about the same benefit as very high mileage and probably less longterm risk. I personally don’t have enough time in life to do all the things I enjoy and want to do.
Even forgetting the lost opportunity for other activities, I’d still reiterate that those who say they run because they truly enjoy it are indulging in some self delusion. I can imagine an easy meditative jog being the most rewarding thing one could want on some occasions, more so than anything else, but the high-mileage distance runner’s “fun” isn’t really in the act of the training itself — because that is literally somewhat uncomfortable on the body — but more in the subsequent knowledge and satisfaction of having completed it and gotten yet another sample of their continued fitness that they deeply care about for some inscrutable reason. It’s closer to an obsession than a truly enjoyable hobby that you like doing while you are doing it, like playing the violin or being moved listening to someone else playing it.
1) If you’ve been going between 5 and 8 hours a week, that would certainly indicate a certain amount of yo yoing in terms of volume, and / or a lack of consistency.
2) Of course you can measure well being (physical) at least by metrics such as race results and training progress…if you weren’t physically well, performances would stagnate or regress, not go forward.
3) And the whiff of addiction still stands. In your original post you claim that you have built up to this volume and actually wonder how you / your body would fare without it. Which sounds awfully like an addict who builds up a tolerance to the drugs they are taking and then has to move on to more, more often or stronger, just to get the high they once had. Of course, you, as they would, will deny being addicted, probably believe that you have it all under control.
Your pseudointellectual prodding is tiresome. Regarding point 3: you repeatedly misrepresent things I’ve said. When called on it, you simply move on to further misrepresentations. I didn’t say I wonder how I would fare without it; over a period of 20 years, I have had periods of consistent training, like in the last 5 years, and periods that were less consistent. Periods that were more consistent resulted in a great overall feeling of well-being. The addiction argument is nonsense — 5 to 8 hours is a moderate but consistent amount of training that retains no similarity with addiction, since it neither spirals out of control, nor does it get in the way of other aspects of life. Indeed, we’ve already covered that it improves overall wellbeing, sleep, and productivity at work. So… it retains no aspects of addiction. It’s almost like regular exercise — and combining that into a hobby and passion — is good for you!
This is only difficult for you to grasp because you’re unwilling. Repeatedly misrepresenting what others say or engaging in bizarre nitpicking is annoying. Your weird contrarianism isn’t intellectually serious. If people ignore you, like I’ll do from now on, don’t confuse that with being right. It just means we don’t want to waste our time.
You can run and also do all the things you mentioned. Nothing is stopping you.
What you are saying is not mutually exclusive with what I said. One could also watch porn 10 hours a week and also do all the other things for about the same benefit as very high mileage and probably less longterm risk. I personally don’t have enough time in life to do all the things I enjoy and want to do.
Even forgetting the lost opportunity for other activities, I’d still reiterate that those who say they run because they truly enjoy it are indulging in some self delusion. I can imagine an easy meditative jog being the most rewarding thing one could want on some occasions, more so than anything else, but the high-mileage distance runner’s “fun” isn’t really in the act of the training itself — because that is literally somewhat uncomfortable on the body — but more in the subsequent knowledge and satisfaction of having completed it and gotten yet another sample of their continued fitness that they deeply care about for some inscrutable reason. It’s closer to an obsession than a truly enjoyable hobby that you like doing while you are doing it, like playing the violin or being moved listening to someone else playing it.
I’m sure YYMMV.
Yes, I am very obsessive about this hobby and will go through hell to preserve it. But I also have a lot of other stuff going on. I think I've done more than most. Isn't the opportunity cost just an hour or two a day?
I had a friend who, as an expatriot American, lived in the UK with a British woman. When they traveled from England to the American locale where he was raised, in Minnesota, and they entered the airport there, he once looked around and commented. He said: "The BLOBS! So many of them. We're back in America."
Excuse me, as I must cut this short...I have to catch a plane to Oklahoma City. Mmmm! Chicken-fried steak for dinner! And I am still overstuffed from eating holiday turkey with lotsa gravy! That won't stop me from overeating again!
What morans. Oh, I assume you mean “expatriate.”
This is my boring and rather sophomoric (but I'm a college freshman...) follow-up to the post by Need follow-up, and which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. And let me be the first to give this posting a down arrow.
First (or "Firstly", for elitist language, spelling, and grammar experts like Need follow-up), I assume that Need follow-up refers to my post. If so, then I am a moran, and I am not the plural morans. (My other personalities might feel differently, though.) ["Moran" and "morans" are classic letsrun.com ways of spelling "moron", to those who don't frequent the forum.] Thank you ever so much for pointing out my misspelling (a word which is sometimes misspelled with one "s", by the way). And, Need follow-up, you are correct in your assumption, but I MEANT, in the past tense -- not MEAN -- "expatriate".
Second (Secondly), I'm gonna bet that I be a gooder spelller than yoo, Need follow-up. I'll bet that you'll chime in with an egomaniacal response, while also telling us how much money you make, that you went to the superior Stanford (not to one of those useless colleges, like NAU or Oregon), and how many miles over 50 you run per week.
Let me just point out to all that Google (which NEVER presents sites that have false information) gives more than one result explaining that the spellings are "follow-up", with a hyphen, for a noun and "follow up", without a hyphen, for its use as a verb.
So, then, Need follow-up, either your name should be Need to follow up, if your hyphenated word is meant to be a verb, or Need follow up, if you are Tarzan and only speak broken English (Me Tarzan, you Jane!). Or else Need a follow-up if you intended "follow-up" to be a noun. Or you're OK, Tarzan, with Need follow-up. On the other hand, maybe it should be Needs following up.
And so on, in this silly game.
Congratulations, moran (in the singular, probably)! Now, I need run soon! I mean I need TO run soon! I also need dictionary. Me hungry, too. (Or is it "two", not "too"?)
And if you ever snootily post again to correct someone's error, do be certain that your own post is absolutely purrfect, OK, Need follow-up?
"While we tend to think marathon runners and gym bunnies are bastions of good health, it could be more dangerous than we realise.
Exercise is good for you, but we should all calm down and do less. “I absolutely believe in exercise,” says Prof Nyström. “Go for a walk. Walk a few kilometres every day. If that’s easy, walk faster. If it’s hard, walk slower and get faster in future"
"I did a trial where we asked a bunch of 25-year-olds to run 5km as fast as possible. Seventy per cent of them had minor heart damage,"
Well...
Think I might have to stop training hard and crack out a bottle of wine.
1) If you’ve been going between 5 and 8 hours a week, that would certainly indicate a certain amount of yo yoing in terms of volume, and / or a lack of consistency.
2) Of course you can measure well being (physical) at least by metrics such as race results and training progress…if you weren’t physically well, performances would stagnate or regress, not go forward.
3) And the whiff of addiction still stands. In your original post you claim that you have built up to this volume and actually wonder how you / your body would fare without it. Which sounds awfully like an addict who builds up a tolerance to the drugs they are taking and then has to move on to more, more often or stronger, just to get the high they once had. Of course, you, as they would, will deny being addicted, probably believe that you have it all under control.
Your pseudointellectual prodding is tiresome. Regarding point 3: you repeatedly misrepresent things I’ve said. When called on it, you simply move on to further misrepresentations. I didn’t say I wonder how I would fare without it; over a period of 20 years, I have had periods of consistent training, like in the last 5 years, and periods that were less consistent. Periods that were more consistent resulted in a great overall feeling of well-being. The addiction argument is nonsense — 5 to 8 hours is a moderate but consistent amount of training that retains no similarity with addiction, since it neither spirals out of control, nor does it get in the way of other aspects of life. Indeed, we’ve already covered that it improves overall wellbeing, sleep, and productivity at work. So… it retains no aspects of addiction. If people ignore you, like I’ll do from now on, don’t confuse that with being right. It just means we don’t want to waste our time.
Ignore me or not…your post still smacks of addiction. From your own words…
”My mental and physical health takes a nosedive if I’m not training 5+ hours a week — I feel particularly good if it’s 8+. But I grew up running a lot and I suspect my body now demands that stimulus to run optimally!”
An addicts mental health takes a nosedive too…if they can’t get the drugs. And many addicts require their alcohol / drug fix to perform optimally at work, at least until it totally consumes them. So you aren’t really providing a great counter argument.
If your body, and by the sounds of it, your mind requires 8+ hours to “run optimally” then you may have to “up your dose” when that is no longer a strong enough influence.
And these types of studies general focus on the effects of “endurance exercise,” but if intensity is the real culprit, wouldn’t middle-aged middle-distance runners and sprinters be at significant risk?
Apparently not. In The Inside Running Podcast interview with Dr Andre le Gerche in post #26, Gerche identifies the primary risk as long sustained periods at relatively high intensity. He specifically mentions marathon pace runs. Obviously, long tempos would fall within this "relatively high intensity" as well. he alludes to tempo runs, but I don't remember him specifically mentioning them when speaking on this topic.
Also, competitive marathon training stresses the immune system. An impaired immune system has been linked to almost all the major diseases of seniors. It's not the intensity per se, it's the duration of the intensity.
Curiously, short term very high intensity exercise (SIT... sprint interval training) has significant T-boosting and anti-aging benefits. I do SIT at least 3x/week, although only one is a running workout.
EDITED TO ADD: Interestingly, Dr Gerche is apparently still doing these workouts, as he plans to compete in some major events in 2025. I didn't ID what he's doing to prevent problems from these workouts, but I was listening while doing other things so maybe I missed it.
Clearly a doctor who can’t take his own advice…
One who has short term performance goals over long term health.
You can run and also do all the things you mentioned. Nothing is stopping you.
What you are saying is not mutually exclusive with what I said. One could also watch porn 10 hours a week and also do all the other things for about the same benefit as very high mileage and probably less longterm risk. I personally don’t have enough time in life to do all the things I enjoy and want to do.
Even forgetting the lost opportunity for other activities, I’d still reiterate that those who say they run because they truly enjoy it are indulging in some self delusion. I can imagine an easy meditative jog being the most rewarding thing one could want on some occasions, more so than anything else, but the high-mileage distance runner’s “fun” isn’t really in the act of the training itself — because that is literally somewhat uncomfortable on the body — but more in the subsequent knowledge and satisfaction of having completed it and gotten yet another sample of their continued fitness that they deeply care about for some inscrutable reason. It’s closer to an obsession than a truly enjoyable hobby that you like doing while you are doing it, like playing the violin or being moved listening to someone else playing it.
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