his is not to be confused with his screwing up in the last OG 1500m -I think he was in an extremely demanding situation, and that he learnt a lot, and will bounce back. And in my eyes it was an unimportant clown race anyway, and nothing important for his real legacy
The fact that you wrote this and only got 2 downvotes means that no one is even reading your dogsht posts anymore. Which is good. The guy actually called the 1500 Olympic finals a "clown race" LOL.
Yes, a plausible explanation. Both the English and the Swedish commentators thought Jakob was dropped, however. But I can’t totally forget that he did the same in WC u20 2018, and ask if there were a common pattern…
he definitely didn't get dropped in the 2018 race. he was far behind the pack from the first or second lap on, when they were not running a hot pace. the first K was 2:38, which is 13:10 pace. the second k was a 2:43.xx, over 13:35 pace. it was clearly a conscious decision on his part. what he was doing, I don't know, but it seemed to be part of a plan.
might have cost him the win having to drop a 3 seconds faster lap with just around 1600 to go, in a race that ended up having a very fast final 600.
The fact that you wrote this and only got 2 downvotes means that no one is even reading your dogsht posts anymore. Which is good. The guy actually called the 1500 Olympic finals a "clown race" LOL.
Yes, I actually think all the championships (mid and distance events) are clown races pr definition, because of their unfairness (too much importance put into one single race, too much “racing”, too much damaging weather conditions, too much tactics, too much problems with schedule -doubling- too much emphasis on winning) and coincidence. And too much slow, mediocre races.
Sometimes a legendary athlete is, however, able to turn a clown race into a real race, like Rudisha in 2012 and Cheruiyot in 2019. And Jakob also pretty much saved the 2024 1500m final by making the three medalist into his puppets (he gave them pr’s they never could have gotten without him), and being dominant and legendary despite screwing up. -A fun clown race almost as good as that Centro won…!
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I couldn't disagree more. The Paris 1500 was probably the most important race so far in defining his legacy (even more than Tokyo) as he would have joined both El G and Coe in a very exclusive list of runners to pull off the 1500 / 5000 AND the 1500 title defense if he had won it.
And I say this as someone who values WRs very highly and sometimes more than Olympic Gold.
Calling that race "an unimportant clown race" couldn't be further from the truth! It was probably the greatest 1500 in any Olympic games or WC to date - 3 guys in a 3:27 race with a kick has never been seen before.
Of course, if Jakob achieves his goal of breaking every distance record, then he will still become the greatest runner of all time. But Paris was certainly a lost opportunity, and I think it's obvious that he desperately wants to improve his championship record in the future.
So let me clarify my position a little:
1. I stand by my “an unimportant clown race” because that race came instead of and ruined the race where Jakob would have run real fast, and not a weak 3.27 (that the three medalist did). -In a real race I think Kerr, Hocker and Nuguse as clearly inferior athletes should have been Jakob’s pacers (maybe paid) and helped him to a (near) WR. Saying that, it was a fun race; it was especially fun that Hocker got that huge leap forward in pr. But also that Kerr and Nuguse did 3.27. -Saying that, I must add that their 3.27s are of course artificial; meaning the three are only 3.28 mid guys in normal races…
2. Championship races are clown races pr definition because they lack pacers and pacing lights, and has too much emphasis on one single race, and on winning and racing and tactics. And not enough on fast times. And they are often unfair -especially the slow distance events in hot or/ and windy conditions. But there are exceptions -Rudisha managed to make a supposed clown race into a real one in 2012, and Cheruiyot seemingly in Doha 2019. But nobody helped the latter so he only got a weak 3.29 instead of a real result. And Jakob in that race should of course have been number two, but because of schedule (the hard 5000m run) he was robbed. -But again: I didn’t matter, because a weak 3.31 silver is nothing to applaud for a guy like Jakob…
3. Running is not about winning -that is a British / American misunderstanding based on unfair and shallow cultures, and a longing for glitter and falsehood.
Racing is about helping each others to run fast, and getting one’s potential out. -Running is, as everything else in life, about being good; being a good runner is being as fast as you can. Who you beat is unimportant and coincidental. Only the best should give winning a thought (because somebody have to be on the top, and then it would feel good if it was you) -but only as a side effect of being fast and setting WR’s…
Jakob is the saviour of a sport WA and a lot of you supporters do everything to ruin. But even he lives in the real world and has to adjust to prestige, winning and racing. Saying that, Jakob should of course have been disqualified for pressing Kerr out in the last bend (and thus ruining his win) -running is helping your competitors, not blocking them. But since Kerr was a parasite and has a parasitic mind set I think it was OK….
4. Jakob becoming a legend (back to back champion) like Coe? Well, that would be a step down, because Coe was not a good 1500m runner (had a 3.31.95 pb most of his career), although he wasn’t as bad as Ovett who was mediocre in every event from 800m to HM.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
I couldn't disagree more. The Paris 1500 was probably the most important race so far in defining his legacy (even more than Tokyo) as he would have joined both El G and Coe in a very exclusive list of runners to pull off the 1500 / 5000 AND the 1500 title defense if he had won it.
And I say this as someone who values WRs very highly and sometimes more than Olympic Gold.
Calling that race "an unimportant clown race" couldn't be further from the truth! It was probably the greatest 1500 in any Olympic games or WC to date - 3 guys in a 3:27 race with a kick has never been seen before.
Of course, if Jakob achieves his goal of breaking every distance record, then he will still become the greatest runner of all time. But Paris was certainly a lost opportunity, and I think it's obvious that he desperately wants to improve his championship record in the future.
So let me clarify my position a little:
1. I stand by my “an unimportant clown race” because that race came instead of and ruined the race where Jakob would have run real fast, and not a weak 3.27 (that the three medalist did). -In a real race I think Kerr, Hocker and Nuguse as clearly inferior athletes should have been Jakob’s pacers (maybe paid) and helped him to a (near) WR. Saying that, it was a fun race; it was especially fun that Hocker got that huge leap forward in pr. But also that Kerr and Nuguse did 3.27. -Saying that, I must add that their 3.27s are of course artificial; meaning the three are only 3.28 mid guys in normal races…
2. Championship races are clown races pr definition because they lack pacers and pacing lights, and has too much emphasis on one single race, and on winning and racing and tactics. And not enough on fast times. And they are often unfair -especially the slow distance events in hot or/ and windy conditions. But there are exceptions -Rudisha managed to make a supposed clown race into a real one in 2012, and Cheruiyot seemingly in Doha 2019. But nobody helped the latter so he only got a weak 3.29 instead of a real result. And Jakob in that race should of course have been number two, but because of schedule (the hard 5000m run) he was robbed. -But again: I didn’t matter, because a weak 3.31 silver is nothing to applaud for a guy like Jakob…
3. Running is not about winning -that is a British / American misunderstanding based on unfair and shallow cultures, and a longing for glitter and falsehood.
Racing is about helping each others to run fast, and getting one’s potential out. -Running is, as everything else in life, about being good; being a good runner is being as fast as you can. Who you beat is unimportant and coincidental. Only the best should give winning a thought (because somebody have to be on the top, and then it would feel good if it was you) -but only as a side effect of being fast and setting WR’s…
Jakob is the saviour of a sport WA and a lot of you supporters do everything to ruin. But even he lives in the real world and has to adjust to prestige, winning and racing. Saying that, Jakob should of course have been disqualified for pressing Kerr out in the last bend (and thus ruining his win) -running is helping your competitors, not blocking them. But since Kerr was a parasite and has a parasitic mind set I think it was OK….
4. Jakob becoming a legend (back to back champion) like Coe? Well, that would be a step down, because Coe was not a good 1500m runner (had a 3.31.95 pb most of his career), although he wasn’t as bad as Ovett who was mediocre in every event from 800m to HM.
I'm not sure why you think competitors have any obligation or duty to help one another? I don't see it as being an Anglo / American thing, most around the world agree that competition, whether sports or elsewhere, is about winning - seeing who is the best head to head, and this means being nice is a luxury reserved for before and after races, not during...
Running as a sport is about winning *and* running fast (pushing the limits of human ability), preferably both at the same time. Jakob would agree, and he places equal importance on both.
Well, I can see that we have fundamentally very different philosophies on this and I doubt this discussion will change either of our minds. But I suppose I have to give you credit for sticking to your views despite it being very unpopular to say the least (if not a bit strange) from my perspective.
I couldn't disagree more. The Paris 1500 was probably the most important race so far in defining his legacy (even more than Tokyo) as he would have joined both El G and Coe in a very exclusive list of runners to pull off the 1500 / 5000 AND the 1500 title defense if he had won it.
And I say this as someone who values WRs very highly and sometimes more than Olympic Gold.
Calling that race "an unimportant clown race" couldn't be further from the truth! It was probably the greatest 1500 in any Olympic games or WC to date - 3 guys in a 3:27 race with a kick has never been seen before.
Of course, if Jakob achieves his goal of breaking every distance record, then he will still become the greatest runner of all time. But Paris was certainly a lost opportunity, and I think it's obvious that he desperately wants to improve his championship record in the future.
Well, it was “an unimportant clown race” to me, and obviously not to Jakob. But aside of that I agree with you in what you are saying here.
But, why was it to you an unimportant clown race? It was the OG 1500m final, with a ridiculous fast time and great runners. Its no Mo Farah showdown.
I'm not sure why you think competitors have any obligation or duty to help one another? I don't see it as being an Anglo / American thing, most around the world agree that competition, whether sports or elsewhere, is about winning - seeing who is the best head to head, and this means being nice is a luxury reserved for before and after races, not during...
Running as a sport is about winning *and* running fast (pushing the limits of human ability), preferably both at the same time. Jakob would agree, and he places equal importance on both.
Well, I can see that we have fundamentally very different philosophies on this and I doubt this discussion will change either of our minds. But I suppose I have to give you credit for sticking to your views despite it being very unpopular to say the least (if not a bit strange) from my perspective.
You are a very decent poster, and I can see your perspective, and I too appreciate man to man duels.. But as you are saying we view things differently in the larger scheme. But I have no problem with you having a different perspective here -the important thing is that you enjoy the sport, and find some meaning in your way of dealing with it…
But, why was it to you an unimportant clown race? It was the OG 1500m final, with a ridiculous fast time and great runners. Its no Mo Farah showdown.
Maybe I misused the word unimportant. -I too was sitting glued to the screen. Of course that race was important and fun to watch, and most of the guys in this final impressed as hell. What I meant, however, is that in my view, it wasn’t important for how I view Jakob -still a hero and the best runner in my eyes. But that can change -I think Kerr, Hocker, Nuguse, Laros, Kessler along with Jakob (and even Cheruiyot) all are Goat potentials. We have to wait and see…
if a tough call deciding whats more boring... reading the essays posted by the know-it-all 19min park runners on this thread or listening to Almgren speak for 5 minutes
Maybe I misused the word unimportant. -I too was sitting glued to the screen. Of course that race was important and fun to watch
So you backpedaled from it being a "clown race" to it being "important and fun to watch". You spineless creature, do you believe in anything you say or is this just a rage bait account?
But in the 5000m he may already be there -we just don’t know. It’s not that no good races means bad races -he just hasn’t been challenged by good runners… (Maybe an exception for Nordås in the Nationals).
Saying that Jakob haven't been challenged by a good runner (except Nordås!) makes it really hard to take anything of this seriously. If we look at the list over the fastest 5000m runners in history, and check their head to head count against Jakob we get the following:
#1 Cheptegei 0-2 Jakob #2 Gebrhivet 2-3 Jakob #4 Kejelcha 0-3 Jakob #7 Aregawi 0-1 Jakob #8 Kiplimo 0-1 Jakob #9 Haile Bekele 1-2 Jakob #10 Barega 2-2 Jakob #11 Katir 3-1 Jakob #12 Jacob Krop 4-2 Jakob (...)
How are not the #1, #2, #4, #7, #8, #9, 10 etc fastest 5000m runner of all time good runners?
There is no point in having this discussion if it all happens in an alternative world where good is bad, up is down and forward is back, olympic medals are worthless and should be thrown in the bin and Cheptegei, Gebrhivet, Kejelcha, Aregawi, Kiplimo etc are not good runners.
I have no reason to not believe Almgren (which have performed really well at the longer distances using the same system) when he says that he things Jakob have potential. If he ever will be able to capitalize on that is a different matter.
2. Jakob doesn’t thin down his training in the track seasons like others. He even had sayings about doing this even less in 2024 (because of his recovery process).
See the previous post to see that this isn't completely accurate either.
Man, your head to head stats are all over the place. Katir has never beaten Jakob lol. Not in 5000m. Krop also hasnt beaten Jakob. Where the hell did you get those?
I couldn't disagree more. The Paris 1500 was probably the most important race so far in defining his legacy (even more than Tokyo) as he would have joined both El G and Coe in a very exclusive list of runners to pull off the 1500 / 5000 AND the 1500 title defense if he had won it.
And I say this as someone who values WRs very highly and sometimes more than Olympic Gold.
Calling that race "an unimportant clown race" couldn't be further from the truth! It was probably the greatest 1500 in any Olympic games or WC to date - 3 guys in a 3:27 race with a kick has never been seen before.
Of course, if Jakob achieves his goal of breaking every distance record, then he will still become the greatest runner of all time. But Paris was certainly a lost opportunity, and I think it's obvious that he desperately wants to improve his championship record in the future.
So let me clarify my position a little:
1. I stand by my “an unimportant clown race” because that race came instead of and ruined the race where Jakob would have run real fast, and not a weak 3.27 (that the three medalist did). -In a real race I think Kerr, Hocker and Nuguse as clearly inferior athletes should have been Jakob’s pacers (maybe paid) and helped him to a (near) WR. Saying that, it was a fun race; it was especially fun that Hocker got that huge leap forward in pr. But also that Kerr and Nuguse did 3.27. -Saying that, I must add that their 3.27s are of course artificial; meaning the three are only 3.28 mid guys in normal races…
2. Championship races are clown races pr definition because they lack pacers and pacing lights, and has too much emphasis on one single race, and on winning and racing and tactics. And not enough on fast times. And they are often unfair -especially the slow distance events in hot or/ and windy conditions. But there are exceptions -Rudisha managed to make a supposed clown race into a real one in 2012, and Cheruiyot seemingly in Doha 2019. But nobody helped the latter so he only got a weak 3.29 instead of a real result. And Jakob in that race should of course have been number two, but because of schedule (the hard 5000m run) he was robbed. -But again: I didn’t matter, because a weak 3.31 silver is nothing to applaud for a guy like Jakob…
3. Running is not about winning -that is a British / American misunderstanding based on unfair and shallow cultures, and a longing for glitter and falsehood.
Racing is about helping each others to run fast, and getting one’s potential out. -Running is, as everything else in life, about being good; being a good runner is being as fast as you can. Who you beat is unimportant and coincidental. Only the best should give winning a thought (because somebody have to be on the top, and then it would feel good if it was you) -but only as a side effect of being fast and setting WR’s…
Jakob is the saviour of a sport WA and a lot of you supporters do everything to ruin. But even he lives in the real world and has to adjust to prestige, winning and racing. Saying that, Jakob should of course have been disqualified for pressing Kerr out in the last bend (and thus ruining his win) -running is helping your competitors, not blocking them. But since Kerr was a parasite and has a parasitic mind set I think it was OK….
4. Jakob becoming a legend (back to back champion) like Coe? Well, that would be a step down, because Coe was not a good 1500m runner (had a 3.31.95 pb most of his career), although he wasn’t as bad as Ovett who was mediocre in every event from 800m to HM.
Coe not a very good 1500m runner and Ovett a mediocre runner overall. At this point you are just trolling. Touch some grass
So you backpedaled from it being a "clown race" to it being "important and fun to watch". You spineless creature, do you believe in anything you say or is this just a rage bait account?
I didn’t backpedal -I just gave some nuances and showed that one can have more than one thought in the head at a time… F.x my sayings about shallow cultures in the UK and the US -don’t rule out that both countries are among the greatest contributors to depth and complexity…
if a tough call deciding whats more boring... reading the essays posted by the know-it-all 19min park runners on this thread or listening to Almgren speak for 5 minutes
IMO Almgren is a very nice and interesting guy with a lot of insight and potential. -I really think you should follow the guy and also listen to him (but also maybe form your own opinions). But boring posters like me would be very easy to block or skip over…
Coe not a very good 1500m runner and Ovett a mediocre runner overall. At this point you are just trolling. Touch some grass
I’m not trolling -things are relative and subjective. I’m just very subjective since I don’t believe all that much in championships. But of course there are nuances to everything -Coe ran a very good sub 3.30 race, eventually, and who knows what Ovett could have done if he hadn’t been injured and sick (even in the 5000m, especially in champs…).
I'm not sure why you think competitors have any obligation or duty to help one another? I don't see it as being an Anglo / American thing, most around the world agree that competition, whether sports or elsewhere, is about winning - seeing who is the best head to head, and this means being nice is a luxury reserved for before and after races, not during...
Running as a sport is about winning *and* running fast (pushing the limits of human ability), preferably both at the same time. Jakob would agree, and he places equal importance on both.
Well, I can see that we have fundamentally very different philosophies on this and I doubt this discussion will change either of our minds. But I suppose I have to give you credit for sticking to your views despite it being very unpopular to say the least (if not a bit strange) from my perspective.
Some more answers from me: No I don’t think competitors have any obligation or duty to help another. But to make a race fast, one would contribute by doing some leading, and if more than one do so, one (or more) could get a pb that is the goal (the win isn’t, because a win doesn’t mean anything - a win can be bad or it can be good if the competition is bad or good, but that is a coincidental thing).
Yes, Jakob is obviously a mix of win and fast time. But his starting point is clearly time. -That is the background for his (in) famous “just the next guy”. Meaning: He doesn’t care about his competition -he is in the race to be the best version of himself, hopefully pb, racing fast and evolving, and getting his potential out. And thus hopefully automatically also winning. And if not, it’s not about his competition, but himself who’s not good enough, and must go home and train and come back better. You can even see this in the last OG 1500m: Jakob probably doesn’t think that he can front run a WR or new pb, but clearly a groundbreaking 3.27 low that would do the thing, and his competitors wouldn’t have been a factor… (It’s Jakob against the watch, not against the competitors, even in an OG final)…
But Jakob also loves competing and winning. This was clear at Bislett games where he dove over the finishing line after fading down the home straight. But not at any cost: In the 3000m against Kiplimo in 2020 he clearly exposed him self for losing, since he went to the front too early. So why did he do that? : Because it was more important to him to keep the pace up, and challenge the European record, than winning…!
Jakob has stressed that it’s not important for him to win, but to win dominating and honourably. I don’t think that’s a dream of crushing his competition or disrespect them. I think it a dream of getting out ones potential in fast times…
Lastly: This Anglo/American thing: When I grew up, and raced, the cultural difference between for instance the US and Norway was quite significantly in some striking ways. -I remember a survey amongst American athletics elite where the question was if one would have wanted an Olympic gold if that meant death after three years. And I think a huge percentage said yes. Well, I discussed it with some Norwegian running friends, and I think everybody laughed and dismissed the question as ridiculous. But Norway has changed dramatically, and nowadays I think you might be right that this winning thing is in a lot of cultures…
I will in a later post give you a more personally told history why I don’t thing winning is the right focus.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
