Haven't you been vehemently opposed to "trash talk" in the past, but suddenly it's good for the sport?
I don't know about "vehemently" but yes, you bring up a good point.
I am against people belittling each other on this board for differences of opinion or outright lies. I don't need "smack talk" from anonymous posters directed at our pros or college kids.
I am also put-off by sprinters who claim, "nobody respects me! and y'all are haters!" when we do respect them and want them to run well. Nobody is "out to get" America's sprinters.
But distance runners don't usually fall into either of those groups, so putting a little "energy" in the debate is a good thing. Kerr and Jakob can handle the smack talk.
It is nothing like a dozen random losers on this board attacking Cole Hocker's man-bun or Kara Goucher's "weird voice" from behind a keyboard. That is the kind of stuff I hate. That brings nothing good to our sport.
Just like: who's career would you like to have? That's an easy one for me.
Well that's an interesting question actually.
As far as accomplishment, performance, record, and PRs are concerned, it's a no brainer.
But taking a deeper dive and expanding the scope of the question to who's had a better experience both career and life lived it is not so clear cut.
Kerr has enjoyed a great running career, has a normal childhood, went to and enjoyed college, certainly imbibed in more of life's pleasures and still accomplished very high career points along the way while living life to its fullest.
Jakob's life and career is both unusual and most certainly and completely focused with a singular goal in mind. To be the best distance runners to ever grace this earth. But that focus, as we all are learning came as a result of a father who not only instilled this focus and drive but did so with abuse both physical and emotional/mental that resulted in the athlete and person he is today. Using methods vetted through his older brothers, Gjert was basically a modern day Dr Frankenstein making his running robot creation. There is no way that Jakob's career would've been the same or perhaps even happened without Gjert. It's a paradox actually. Without the suffering imposed on Jakob by Gjert's mad science and methods, would Jakob even have a running career similar to what we now see... or even at all? Obviously Jakob has been greatly affected or else he would've never turned on his father. That takes courage that can only come from being deeply emotionally affected.
So when you ask who's career would you rather have, the answer is more complicated than just comparing results.
We are only nine days into 2025 and the Kerr-Ingebrigtsen war of words has already resumed.
On an episode of the Citius Mag Podcast that was released on Thursday, Josh Kerr offered his thoughts on Jakob Ingebrigtsen not signing up as a Racer for Grand Slam Track:
"I think it's smart that he didn't sign up, to be honest. In any non-paced race, he hasn't won in the last couple of years. And so you're going to throw him in a bunch of non-paced races? It seems silly, to do that. It's gonna expose most of his tactical stuff. And if he was in the 800-1500 group, watching him run the 800 would be a lot like a deer on ice."
The amusing thing to me is that neither of them are giving the other any credit at all. Ingebrigtsen is certainly more vulnerable in non-paced races, but he was brilliant in winning the European champs last year without rabbits -- a meet that Kerr notably skipped.
Meanwhile Kerr's first race of 2024 was a world indoor record in the 2 mile that he announced he was targeting months ahead of time. Now it helped a lot that Kerr had Grant Fisher pushing the pace up front in that race, but Kerr said he was going for the WR and got it.
These two just need to put the feud on hold make love! I think 2025 is going to be a Ricky Booby kind of romance between the 2.
This rivalry is so good for the sport precisely because it give us (the fans) a chance to decide what style of racer do we like the most. Kerr and Jakob represent two different ways of approaching the sport and honestly, I like the debate/controversy.
I am on team Jakob because I am sick of hearing people say he needs a rabbit to win. That is simply not true.
I would also like to point out that in the Olympic 1500m, Hocker and Kerr and Nuguse had a rabbit for 1400m. That is literally the best set-up you can ask for.
Jakob ran Olympic-record pace for 1400m, pulling the entire field along in his slipstream. To criticize that guy for "only being good in rabbited races" when you yourself are the person benefiting from the greatest rabbit of all time, is nuts.
Here is the race again, one of the best in Olympic history, and if you watch it, you can see Kerr getting sling-shot out of the final curve. It is like the best set-up ever. Yet somehow, Kerr managed to lose. SMH on that one.
Kudos for Jakob to run the gutsiest race humanly possible (not the smartest, the gutsiest).
I feel like JI almost pulled it off just after 800m. There was a point where Komen was #2 but faded. There was the start of a gap but Cheruiyot closed it when Kerr looked a little stale.
Can't help but wonder how things would've played out if Cheruiyot didn't cover that. We may still have the same ending but that moment in the race seems to be overlooked.
So if this was just Josh Kerr opening his yap out of thin air to take a shot at Jakob then I don't really know what to say.
I'll try and explain it this way - the last great "miler beef" was kind of the original one and of course that was Coe and Ovett. But the thing that made it so good was that neither of the guys really opened their yaps about each other and let the media try and spin their words. And the key thing was that the underlying force behind it all was a genuine difference between both of them in personality and the way they portrayed and held themselves.
This "beef" is just two pretty boys with perfectly coifed hair who drive expensive cars. It's so contrived and disingenuous it's laughable. To think that this was the first thing we heard from Kerr this year and it's focused on Jakobs "racing ability" - I'm starting to think maybe he's gay and secretly lusts after Jakob.
The worst part of it all is that Kerr has now decided on this "I'm a racers racer" schtick - he's all about the competition and head to heads - the "true essence" of the sport. Yeah, only when he got a fat check from Michael Johnson was he all of a sudden about that. Plenty of chances to race outside of the championships in the last 4 years Josh - I guess the "incentive" wasn't enough then.
Is he going out of his way to be disliked? Is this all a plan? The Scottish "Bond Villain"? A "Rick the Model Martel/CM Punk" WWE heel? Promoting his Cybertruck and his Gucci man-bags? You could say "well at least people are talking about him - you included, and that's a good thing" Is it? It's not making me want to watch GST which is the only time we'll see him outside of the World Champs, I'll tell you that much.
Haven't you been vehemently opposed to "trash talk" in the past, but suddenly it's good for the sport?
I don't know about "vehemently" but yes, you bring up a good point.
I am against people belittling each other on this board for differences of opinion or outright lies. I don't need "smack talk" from anonymous posters directed at our pros or college kids.
I am also put-off by sprinters who claim, "nobody respects me! and y'all are haters!" when we do respect them and want them to run well. Nobody is "out to get" America's sprinters.
But distance runners don't usually fall into either of those groups, so putting a little "energy" in the debate is a good thing. Kerr and Jakob can handle the smack talk.
It is nothing like a dozen random losers on this board attacking Cole Hocker's man-bun or Kara Goucher's "weird voice" from behind a keyboard. That is the kind of stuff I hate. That brings nothing good to our sport.
So, you want good hearted trash talk like every other popular sport on earth? Why didn't you just say so?
Sure, there's always going to be a minority doing mean spirited name calling, that's unavoidable. That's not trash talk or drama, that's just trolling. I'm genuinely confused as to why you're conflating internet trolls with drama and fanfare that literally sells tickets.
That explains a couple DLs here or there. Doesn't explain skipping Pre until this year, nor the super-selective race schedule. Skipping Euros we can also be a little dubious on as many Europeans based in America prioritize it (Garcia-Romo, Snowden, Gourley, Vissa).
Jakob and detractors of Kerr weren't out of line calling out Kerr's schedule though last year he did run Millrose, World Indoors, Pre, Paris, and a follow-up DL. At least he chose big races if he was going to be selective.
I don't have a dog in the Jakob-Kerr rivalry (I root for the Americans), so I'll defend both of them from the common criticisms.
Kerr - While acknowledging in the Citius interview that there is validity in the criticisms of his racing schedule, Kerr said he knows he'll never be able to please everyone (referencing the ways that athletes are attacked online), so he listens to his coaching staff and does what's best for him. It's hard to argue with his results. Starting with the 2019 world championships in Doha, he has run a personal or season's best at 5 outdoor global championships in a row.
Jakob - It's crazy for Kerr or anyone else to say that Jakob isn't a strong tactical racer. Jakob is as meticulous as it gets, and he chooses the tactics that he thinks gives him the best chance to win. We can see that in the way he adapts his tactics based on the event, his strengths, and his competition. He doesn't race a global championship 5,000 the same way he does a 1500. And it's hard to argue with his results. No other male distance runner has matched his global championship medal collection so far in this decade.
To the people that are getting mad at the banter... this trash talk is exactly what track and field needs. You don't see people getting mad at NBA players for talking crap. We can't complain about people not enjoying track when we keep it a bunch of people politely running in circles. There needs to be skin in the game.
To think that this was the first thing we heard from Kerr this year and it's focused on Jakobs "racing ability" - I'm starting to think maybe he's gay and secretly lusts after Jakob.
I would respect them so much more if they just said this instead.
To think that this was the first thing we heard from Kerr this year and it's focused on Jakobs "racing ability" - I'm starting to think maybe he's gay and secretly lusts after Jakob.
I would respect them so much more if they just said this instead.
This from Sally is completely unwarranted. Sally has a wild imagination and should keep his homophobic comments to himself.
To the people that are getting mad at the banter... this trash talk is exactly what track and field needs. You don't see people getting mad at NBA players for talking crap. We can't complain about people not enjoying track when we keep it a bunch of people politely running in circles. There needs to be skin in the game.
No people don't get mad at NBA players for "talking crap" - they just get tired of it and switch off and don't watch anymore.
The "banter" would be good if it had some genuine foundation to it. But right now this seems like some social media startup vice president has been advising Josh Kerr on how he can manufacture drama with Jakob to create interest around himself.
Most people don't live like this - hence it's not relatable and having the opposite effect.
Neither Kerr nor Ingebrigtsen is holding the latest Olympic 1500 gold medal. Kerr is not a 5000 guy. There is nothing left for them to have a rivalry about.
I'm a brit and I find Kerr a slightly mediocre embarrassment as a person except for his fantastic 1500 record. He's a superb athlete and I'd say tactically very astute at 1500. I suspect the silly selective narrative he's concocted on JI helps him mentally.
Regarding this sparring silliness being "great for the sport" , are there really any people outside UK and Norway who have been drawn notably closer to following the sport because of two guys trading banal verbal blows outside their exciting races? People within the sport will surely love current men's 1500 because of the races anyway.
Footnote on Kerr assuming JI would be no good at 800. Why? How slow can a 3.26 guy be if he races an 800 when he's in 3.26 shape. El G quoted as having a 1.46 official PB even tho he closed a 1500 in sub 1.47 and has an unofficial behind closed doors 1.42.x which seems plausible. Again, it suits Kerr's own quest for confidence to build in JI's 800m mediocrity.
I wonder if JI and JK know each other's appearance fees in the big meets? My hunch is that JK is maybe in denial on the likely discrepancy between the two and what this implies about their respective CVs.