The NXN course location needs to change!

That meet was epic. Kids finishing the course covered in mud? Kids falling on a sloppy section? Brutal to run in, true, but it made for great watching. Reminded me of USATF Club Nationals when they were held in Sacramento - - - epically sloppy course. But memorable. Plus kids get to tour the Nike facilites? How cool is that for them? !

In the northeast we actually run real cross country to qualify for the finals. The first half of the race includes a mile up and surprisingly top athletes run the second half slower. Northeast number 2 team ran a team time almost the same as qualifying and finished a surprising 8th.

Real cross country involves weather conditions. A real cross country runner needs to be able to compete in tough conditions. Moving a meet for weather is teaching kids to be wimps.

I think the meet is great other than choosing the at large bids because the Northeast kids will not have the sexy times.

You bemoan the fact that NXN requires the kids to:

1. go out hard without blowing up
2. avoid getting trapped in the pack
3. be able to recover from a fast first mile
4. pick a good line in the mud
5. keep their balance despite bad footing
6. navigate in a tight pack
7. and handle all kinds of conditions (like rain and temps in the 40°s).
   

But those are seven essential skills the rest of us consider vital for being a good cross country runner. If you are a "great runner" but don't have those skills, then you need to stick to the track.

Please don't dumb down cross country so the same athletes who win on the track always win in cross. If that is what you want, then just run a Fall track season. Nobody else wants that.

If you want a fast 5000m time, run a 5000m on the track.

Yeah, I guess we better get rid of the steeplechase in track too.

Charlie Vause, not mentioned as a favorite to win said with 1k to go he thought he had a chance to win. Personally, I think he was physically stronger for those conditions than the others and he knew it. Not sure what the other guys were thinking at any point in the race. The Oregon kid hung it out there and did his best to lead or hang with the leaders most of the way finishing 11th. He probably really didnt belong there either since his credentials coming into the race werent as stellar as many others.

So, between those two guys alone, Id have to go with the fact that they werent there to complain about not ideal conditions and just did their best with the cards dealt to them. Most of tbose athletes probably did the same.

It's unfortunate that some, OP and a few others, here just dont see it their way. Id say you probably just didnt get a well rounded experience with the sport and that's ok. But Im just curious as to why you want to push your values on their experience that they had. IF you were there, in the race, then Id say you have a right to complain. Nobody would probably listen to you seriously though. Face it, some people dont like sunny, hot and humid conditions either but it happens. Some people like it to be absolutely miserable and pray for the worse scenario because they know there are soft folk that wont be able to handle it mentally.

I would think you would have a bigger argument for 3rd or 4th place teams at some regionals being much better that some region champions. Oh, wait, which team was top 3 but got beat at state or which team had to get an at large bid and still made podium?

And all you want is a dry, flat course to produce record times by the obvious favorites. Oh, wait, that happened too. Damn! You need to find something else to complain about.

PS. Congratulations to all who were there, YOU earned it and will always remember it! Spectators: thank you for slopping around the course to support your favorite runners and teams, even those who didnt have their best day!!!

Looking forward to next year! See you in Portland, OR for a great tradition! Thanks Phil for the opportunity!!!

Well, Cole Hocker did run NXN but he didn't win there. Fisher and Cheserek didn't run NXN but they probably would've won there. Maybe the only way to really compare the courses is when an individual runs both races. Lukas Verxbicas!

Train how you race. Also Cali kids should try running real XC before that because clearly road racing is not good prep for rough conditions.

Go to Oregon early in the season and run the Crater Twilight 5k. I think that's what it is called.

You can't be serious! That is NOT a championship course and it is a joke the NXR South continues to be held there.

Check out Jared Ward's recent Oxford cross country posts/course.

I am unfamiliar with this course. May someone please tell me why this is an unpopular course?

you guys are honestly re*arded suggesting this

as if the kids are the ones choosing the courses they run on

you don't think CA coaches/teams would make "real" XC courses if they could? they all just do road races to get fast times? get real you guys are seriously so ignorant

CA is an expensive place to live. land costs a LOT. almost any major section of grass is a private golf course that teams will get in major trouble if they run on. Socal is basically a desert, practically anything green is due to water from 100s of miles away

these kids are humans like from any other state. they make do with the resources they have and run best in the conditions their bodies are used to just like everyone else who has ever lived on planet earth.

it's like complaining runners from the midwest are total pu**ies becaus they don't usually do well at altitude

maybe, just maybe, XC in it's purest form isn't really custom tailored for a kid living in a desert?

You must think the winners of those Tough Mudder races are the greatest cross country runners on Earth.

It´s not like unfit runners won NXN because of conditions. Jojo Jourdan still ran sub 4 and is the best true freshman in the NCAA, so it´s hard to say he wouldn´t have won anyway. Just because someone isn´t rated the highest dosen´t mean they aren´t the best in the field, they just haven´t backed up their fitness until then.

Of course a slow kid isn't going to win but many of the best guys fell.or got stuck in the mud. Had the course been dry, the winner wouldn't have been top 10.

California has green spaces in regional and county parks that can be used for real XC. Municipal golf courses, too. Schools can host small events to get experience on grass. They can also fundraise and travel to big invites held in proper XC conditions. Better yet, why not create a soft surface invitational within the state? NCAA and USATF have held real XC races with large fields in places like Sacramento and San Francisco.

The athletes and the coaches can demand these things rather than continually running glorified road races. Otherwise, stop whining about rain and mud or turn down your invitation to Portland and go to Running Lane instead.

I am from Minnesota. It doesn't matter what type of courses run during the season. And Runninglane was a muddy mess one year also.

"There is no such thing as bad weather, just soft people." - Bill Bowerman

Bad weather and soft people are completely different from course conditions.

Again, can someone please tell me why the Bear Branch Park XC course, Texas, is not a good course?