Give them some time. They are coming off of several years of abysmal coaching and a TON of staff turnover. Many of their best athletes transferred too. No coach can fix that in two months. Wait a year or two, and see how the team, especially new recruits, develop. It's too early to make any judgements.
He could start with doing a good job with the team that he has. But he didn't. Objectively their athletes did not perform to their potential.
I don’t think it’s axe grinding. It’s concern. Mediocre to poor showing at heps and regionals, their top senior was hurt and didn’t run all XC season….just not a great first impression for Ben in his debut season. Regardless of what he was given to work with recruiting wise. The expectation would have been for him to keep his key returning athletes healthy and to see them continue to develop under his tutelage. He did not deliver. We’ll give him an indoor and an outdoor season to work out the kinks…but as the previous poster stated…not a good start.
This is the same program where a huge proportion of men had stress fractures of the femur, right? If so, there are underlying issues that will take real time to address. Let's give Ben time to fix the culture, get them healthy, then we can judge.
People know that Dartmouth is not a historical powerhouse right? Vin Lannana taking this team to consecutive 2nd place finishes in the 80's might be the best coaching achievement in NCAA history. This is a program that hasn't won Heps since 2005 and last made Nationals in 2016.
True inherited a complete mess from the previous regime. Imagine how insanely overtrained your team has to be to have numerous femoral stress fractures while running in the soft surface nirvana of Hanover? I think he'll be good in the long term, but rebuilding a place like Dartmouth is not a quick fix. You need to find a lot of under the radar diamonds in recruiting and then be great and patient with their development. You aren't getting the real blue chip foot locker types, you need to identify the 9:15 guy from some rural backwater who's gonna run 13:45 in 3-4 years.
If by "top senior" you mean Velikonja, another thread on Dartmouth mentioned that he may be saving XC eligibility for a 5th year.
Velikonja has been running with Ben True outside of practice for 2 years and was THE BIGGEST ADVOCATE for Ben True to be hired. There is a ZERO percent chance Velikonja did all that just to elect to skip his senior year under True. He is injured, and several other key members of both the men's and women's teams sustained big injuries this year. Despite McNulty being gone, their injury problems have persisted.
"Velikonja said he developed a more personal relationship with True during his sophomore summer in 2023. Despite True no longer officially working with the College, the two went on long runs together “pretty regularly,” Velikonja said.
This is not true. Former Dartmouth coach Barry Harwick has told me that Velikonja is healthy and fit right now and will run track for Dartmouth in 2025. But he's got a full ride to Furman next year and sat out the 2024 XC season because he wants to make sure he has all three seasons of eligibility.
This post was edited 54 seconds after it was posted.
Velikonja has been running with Ben True outside of practice for 2 years and was THE BIGGEST ADVOCATE for Ben True to be hired. There is a ZERO percent chance Velikonja did all that just to elect to skip his senior year under True. He is injured, and several other key members of both the men's and women's teams sustained big injuries this year. Despite McNulty being gone, their injury problems have persisted.
"Velikonja said he developed a more personal relationship with True during his sophomore summer in 2023. Despite True no longer officially working with the College, the two went on long runs together “pretty regularly,” Velikonja said.
This is not true. Former Dartmouth coach Barry Harwick has told me that Velikonja is healthy and fit right now and will run track for Dartmouth in 2025. But he's got a full ride to Furman next year and sat out the 2024 XC season because he wants to make sure he has all three seasons of eligibility.
that is a bit wild. i genuinely thought this wasn't allowed in the ivy league? how is this the first time i have heard of someone doing this?
Because this is the first time an Ivy League Program has gone so off the rails that an athlete would rather spend their eligibility somewhere else. It's always been allowed though.
It happens very frequently on a smaller scale. Athlete's won't rush back from an injury to save eligibility for a 5th year and go to another school to get a masters on scholarship.
They are not gonna be back in a few years. Just watch. It is not a recruit problem. Dartmouth got better recruits than penn, cornell, and columbia. They are only good at joining frats.
People know that Dartmouth is not a historical powerhouse right? Vin Lannana taking this team to consecutive 2nd place finishes in the 80's might be the best coaching achievement in NCAA history. This is a program that hasn't won Heps since 2005 and last made Nationals in 2016.
True inherited a complete mess from the previous regime. Imagine how insanely overtrained your team has to be to have numerous femoral stress fractures while running in the soft surface nirvana of Hanover? I think he'll be good in the long term, but rebuilding a place like Dartmouth is not a quick fix. You need to find a lot of under the radar diamonds in recruiting and then be great and patient with their development. You aren't getting the real blue chip foot locker types, you need to identify the 9:15 guy from some rural backwater who's gonna run 13:45 in 3-4 years.
it's trickier than that.
I doubt any 4,000-person college has as strong a distance running history as Dartmouth, both men and women.
Many US team members have come from that place - it's a long list and would surprise a lot of people if we had the list handy.
Dartmouth is a small to midsize college - it hits way over its weight in distance running and has done so since the 1980s. That it has to compete against massive universities with 10x its student body makes D less impactful on the team side.
But as a nurturer of individual world class distance running talent? Per capita it has a terrific record.
I think that's why it gets so much attention on lrc.
You cannot even join a frat until sophomore year so the new coaches can set expectations and ground rules with their first recruiting classes that are coming in.
People know that Dartmouth is not a historical powerhouse right? Vin Lannana taking this team to consecutive 2nd place finishes in the 80's might be the best coaching achievement in NCAA history. This is a program that hasn't won Heps since 2005 and last made Nationals in 2016.
True inherited a complete mess from the previous regime. Imagine how insanely overtrained your team has to be to have numerous femoral stress fractures while running in the soft surface nirvana of Hanover? I think he'll be good in the long term, but rebuilding a place like Dartmouth is not a quick fix. You need to find a lot of under the radar diamonds in recruiting and then be great and patient with their development. You aren't getting the real blue chip foot locker types, you need to identify the 9:15 guy from some rural backwater who's gonna run 13:45 in 3-4 years.
9:15 guys don’t go on to run 13:45, unless they’re undertrained in HS. If he did find one, and it would be hard to do so, Dartmouth probably wouldn’t be a good fit.
People know that Dartmouth is not a historical powerhouse right? Vin Lannana taking this team to consecutive 2nd place finishes in the 80's might be the best coaching achievement in NCAA history. This is a program that hasn't won Heps since 2005 and last made Nationals in 2016.
True inherited a complete mess from the previous regime. Imagine how insanely overtrained your team has to be to have numerous femoral stress fractures while running in the soft surface nirvana of Hanover? I think he'll be good in the long term, but rebuilding a place like Dartmouth is not a quick fix. You need to find a lot of under the radar diamonds in recruiting and then be great and patient with their development. You aren't getting the real blue chip foot locker types, you need to identify the 9:15 guy from some rural backwater who's gonna run 13:45 in 3-4 years.
9:15 guys don’t go on to run 13:45, unless they’re undertrained in HS. If he did find one, and it would be hard to do so, Dartmouth probably wouldn’t be a good fit.
Why would it not be a good fit for them - I am genuinely asking. I don’t understand your point.
People know that Dartmouth is not a historical powerhouse right? Vin Lannana taking this team to consecutive 2nd place finishes in the 80's might be the best coaching achievement in NCAA history. This is a program that hasn't won Heps since 2005 and last made Nationals in 2016.
True inherited a complete mess from the previous regime. Imagine how insanely overtrained your team has to be to have numerous femoral stress fractures while running in the soft surface nirvana of Hanover? I think he'll be good in the long term, but rebuilding a place like Dartmouth is not a quick fix. You need to find a lot of under the radar diamonds in recruiting and then be great and patient with their development. You aren't getting the real blue chip foot locker types, you need to identify the 9:15 guy from some rural backwater who's gonna run 13:45 in 3-4 years.
Dartmouth should qualify for NCAAs every year and should threaten top 10 in the NCAA most years. Amazing academics in the best non-altitude training location in the USA.
They can absolutely draw NXR or Footlocker qualifiers. Most of their current team ran faster than 9:15 in high school, recruited by clueless coaches.
They have several international athletes on their team, so they aren't solely stuck with domestic talent. Dartmouth has financial aid packages that are in most cases better than scholarship offers those same kids would be getting at Power 5 programs.
In theory they can have 30 guys on their XC roster all receiving 75% or higher financial aid packages.
People know that Dartmouth is not a historical powerhouse right? Vin Lannana taking this team to consecutive 2nd place finishes in the 80's might be the best coaching achievement in NCAA history. This is a program that hasn't won Heps since 2005 and last made Nationals in 2016.
True inherited a complete mess from the previous regime. Imagine how insanely overtrained your team has to be to have numerous femoral stress fractures while running in the soft surface nirvana of Hanover? I think he'll be good in the long term, but rebuilding a place like Dartmouth is not a quick fix. You need to find a lot of under the radar diamonds in recruiting and then be great and patient with their development. You aren't getting the real blue chip foot locker types, you need to identify the 9:15 guy from some rural backwater who's gonna run 13:45 in 3-4 years.
Dartmouth should qualify for NCAAs every year and should threaten top 10 in the NCAA most years. Amazing academics in the best non-altitude training location in the USA.
They can absolutely draw NXR or Footlocker qualifiers. Most of their current team ran faster than 9:15 in high school, recruited by clueless coaches.
They have several international athletes on their team, so they aren't solely stuck with domestic talent. Dartmouth has financial aid packages that are in most cases better than scholarship offers those same kids would be getting at Power 5 programs.
In theory they can have 30 guys on their XC roster all receiving 75% or higher financial aid packages.
meh
try telling an upper middle class distance runner that he has to pay $90,000 per year at Dartmouth or $10,000/year or whatever at Stanford, Cal, Michigan, Wisco, UVA or whatever. A quarter million dollars more and a ton of debt for a pretty campus and smaller classes doesn't always sell.
But sure, for middle class or lower people, running for an ivy is an amazing deal. Free.
But the lack of athletic scholarships makes recruiting hard.
They recently hired a new female as a distance coach. Indoor track is starting soon. What times or places do you all believe constitute success for their athletes? Are there any majors at Dartmouth that justify the value proposition of paying $90K a year if you don’t receive financial aid?
Velikonja has been running with Ben True outside of practice for 2 years and was THE BIGGEST ADVOCATE for Ben True to be hired. There is a ZERO percent chance Velikonja did all that just to elect to skip his senior year under True. He is injured, and several other key members of both the men's and women's teams sustained big injuries this year. Despite McNulty being gone, their injury problems have persisted.
"Velikonja said he developed a more personal relationship with True during his sophomore summer in 2023. Despite True no longer officially working with the College, the two went on long runs together “pretty regularly,” Velikonja said.
This is not true. Former Dartmouth coach Barry Harwick has told me that Velikonja is healthy and fit right now and will run track for Dartmouth in 2025. But he's got a full ride to Furman next year and sat out the 2024 XC season because he wants to make sure he has all three seasons of eligibility.
He sounds like a real team player. If he was on the football team and pulled this, he would be removed from the roster.
In the women's 1500, I felt bad for Amanda Eccelston. I have no idea if she would've been competitive at Rio. I just think that missing a spot at the Olympics by a few hundredths of second in a race as long as the 1500 has got to sting quite a bit.
