This is not his entire quote on the topic. He goes into a little deeper. I argee with him that going pro earlier isn’t going to help most be faster in the long run. But they’re getting paid so whatever.
Originally because of an incorrect article written by Pulse Sports, the title said Fred Kerley was talking specifically about Quincy Wilson. Our Jonathan Gault has listened to the podcast and says he never referenced him. He was talking about HSers in general.
As a result we have changed the title of the thread.
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If you can run the times, you can run the times. High School kids just need to know what they are getting into when they step out there with the big boys. "Adult Stuff" going to happen, don't get your feelings hurt.
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No one can match the rampant drug use of E Africans.
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newaccountsinceyourwebsitesucks wrote:
Also, QW gets unfairly maligned because of his 47 leg. He pulled his hamstring the day before the mixed relay and wasn't even supposed to run at all. The showdown with Bryce Deadmon in Florida was supposed to decide the last spot for the mixed 4x400. Politics ended up getting him on that relay, for obvious reasons.
So, you are saying that a 16 year-old kid was put on the relay for political reasons.
And you are saying that led to him getting injured, running trash, and getting the strongest team eliminated.
This is a pretty good argument that the powers that be (USATF etc) are managing QW in a way that is bad for the sport (and for him), isn't it?
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Vee_Eye_Tee wrote:
3) as a US soccer fan in an era rife with snobby fans who think we should only schedule the best teams even if we lose, my response is a team in a building era needs some incubation to learn to do things right, and some space to learn lessons from how elite meets go.
one reason to me the US national team sucks is there are few low hanging fruit games where the team can tinker with personnel and confirm they have learned the tactics. it's instead a constant barrage of mexico, canada, brazil, colombia games. most of which we don't win lately.
they then don't seem to get the lesson to slow down and figure out why it's happening and reconsider the selection of personnel and tactics. it's on to the next tough one. and it being a tough one there is result pressure. the same experienced players get called as supposedly the best chance to win even if they have lost lately. similar mistakes are made. they lose some more.
4) which, to me, a developing thing needs room to incubate. it needs at least some "easy" just to work on the details. it only needs "hard" when the details are sorted.
5) does 47 in that heat seem like he's completely sorted? no. that's wildly inconsistent. he needs more incubation/cooking.
6) a NBA or NFL draft flop who saves their money is still set for life. that is not track's economics. what we call sponsorship operates almost more like their salary. you get prize money based on finish. on the highest level DL circuit, those prizes are hard to come by. a limited number of pros are making bank.
7) and he can make NIL in college now, with room and board covered.
at which point we circle back to the questions of, is he a football player or a runner? and if he's a runner, what's best for his development and consistency.
to me the "but he's running 44" mentality is ahead of itself. he didn't dominate the olympics. he had an ok day at trials, 6th, after good rounds. he had a lousy day at paris. he is a prodigy on the times but in none of these scenarios was he actually winning these pro races.
8) just because you're destroying kids in HS races doesn't mean you're not working on things. to me a less contested HS race is actually a better environment to work on technique, mindset, etc. unlike US soccer, he doesn't have to constantly worry about the level of competition same time he's trying to execute. to me the harder you make it the more likely to lean back on bad habits. "dance with what brung ya." except that's what people maxed out on their talent card say. people with even more upside should take some risks.
GREAT post.
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Starr wrote:
In the Olympic 4X100, why was Kerley switched from the 2nd leg in the prelims to anchor leg in the finals?
Was it for his ego?
That switch cost the team Gold
Moronic post.
He was switched because Lyles dropped out.
Come on.
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Grinder coach wrote:
Newname wrote:
The kid ran one bad race last year and ran a 44.2.
He of course deserves to compete.
Doubtful that a 16 year old has "already run his lifetime PR."
Wariner's career was too short. Never broke 44 from age 25 on.
Warniner had a terrible coach who burned and churned all his athletes. Warniner was the one who was tough enough to put up a few good performances before flaming out.
You mean Clyde Hart, probably the world's most accomplished 400m coach, who guided Michael Johnson to an eight-year winning streak??
Why do some of you even post? SMDH.
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Fred K so right wrote:
newaccountsinceyourwebsitesucks wrote:
Also, QW gets unfairly maligned because of his 47 leg. He pulled his hamstring the day before the mixed relay and wasn't even supposed to run at all. The showdown with Bryce Deadmon in Florida was supposed to decide the last spot for the mixed 4x400. Politics ended up getting him on that relay, for obvious reasons.
So, you are saying that a 16 year-old kid was put on the relay for political reasons.
And you are saying that led to him getting injured, running trash, and getting the strongest team eliminated.
This is a pretty good argument that the powers that be (USATF etc) are managing QW in a way that is bad for the sport (and for him), isn't it?
*almost getting the strongest team eliminated
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Clyde Hart coached MJ to world records at 200m and 400m and a string of Olympic golds. When MJ retired, Hart coached a white 20 year old to Olympic gold at 400m and eventually to the 3rd fastest time ever run. Hart also coached Sandra RR to Olympic 400m gold and an American women’s 400m record, still the record today. Hart is easily the most accomplished 400m coach of all time.
He coached nine Olympians to 13 Olympic gold medals, one silver, and three bronze medals. He also coached 34 national champions and 561 All-America performances.
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Fred K so right wrote:
Moronic post.
He was switched because Lyles dropped out.
Come on.
But Lyles dropping out led to Kerley moving to anchor and that was the fatal error. Why move him from 2nd to 4th? Why mess with exchange partners who had success in the semifinals? The coaches could have left the first 3 runners in the same order (Coleman, Kerley, King) as the semis and just plugged Bednarek in at the end in Lyles vacated spot.
Why did the coaches do this? Do athletes get to chime in, hey let me get anchor now that the star is out? It was bad.40 -
Baylor 4 x 4 wrote:
Clyde Hart coached MJ to world records at 200m and 400m ... Sandra RR to Olympic 400m gold and an American women’s 400m record, still the record today. Hart is easily the most accomplished 400m coach of all time, when it comes to burning out virtually all his 400m recruits...
.PEDs will do that.
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Uqq7 wrote:
Fred is not really offering a coherent argument. If he thinks it is hurting the kid, then that is possible. And then hurting a kid could lead to hurting the sport? Is that his argument?
He thinks the sport at the top level is hurting the kid . That's up to the kid and his family to decide. Flipside: the kid at that level is hurting the sport, but whatever, I am gonna be a punk and stare him down and talk filth to him. cause that's what we do....."i'm not in control of my trash talking to and mad-dogging a youth , what do you thing I am a grown-up?" Zero points Kerley
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The only thing that I could think of that could hurt him is that he gets too much clout and recognition for being the young sprinter amongst men, causing him to never really push himself to achieve the times it would otherwise take to get that kind of recognition, I.e win multiple gold medals or break the world record. So he’s at a disadvantage psychologically. But, everybody is different, maybe his work ethic is undeniable and he simply continues to train hard, and do everything right, much like Sydney. I still don’t see what Kelley is getting at though. Staring him down didn’t work when he went out there and pb’d every big race he’s been in so far.
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Everydog wrote:
Uqq7 wrote:
Fred is not really offering a coherent argument. If he thinks it is hurting the kid, then that is possible. And then hurting a kid could lead to hurting the sport? Is that his argument?
He thinks the sport at the top level is hurting the kid . That's up to the kid and his family to decide. Flipside: the kid at that level is hurting the sport, but whatever, I am gonna be a punk and stare him down and talk filth to him. cause that's what we do....."i'm not in control of my trash talking to and mad-dogging a youth , what do you thing I am a grown-up?" Zero points Kerley
Wow he’s self aware
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What a crybaby. This pro/amateur distinction doesn't really exist in most countries around the world and only exists in the US because of the collegiate system which looks like it's nearing the end of its life.
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I agree with Fred's conclusion but not really the why or reasoning. But if you're running 44 at any age - who says you should be excluded? It's a tough call.
It's interesting that Fred has a lot of say on the topic, as he's usually a man of few words.
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On the list of "things hurting the sport" this is not in the top 50.
A more truthful quote might read "We as pros don't like showing up to our early season rust busters and racing kids who are super sharp from the high school season".
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5thinstate wrote:
Fred K so right wrote:
Moronic post.
He was switched because Lyles dropped out.
Come on.
But Lyles dropping out led to Kerley moving to anchor and that was the fatal error. Why move him from 2nd to 4th? Why mess with exchange partners who had success in the semifinals? The coaches could have left the first 3 runners in the same order (Coleman, Kerley, King) as the semis and just plugged Bednarek in at the end in Lyles vacated spot.
Why did the coaches do this? Do athletes get to chime in, hey let me get anchor now that the star is out? It was bad.I agree that changing around the first two legs was a mistake.
They should have moved the alternate in to anchor and kept the other three in the same order.But it isn't reasonable to say that Kerley was put on anchor for his ego, after he ran the backstretch brilliantly in the semi with no apparent complaint. It is Noah who caught COVID doing too much unmasked appearances, and the coaches who set the new order.
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Everydog wrote:
He thinks the sport at the top level is hurting the kid .... I am gonna be a punk and stare him down and talk filth to him. cause that's what we do....."i'm not in control of my trash talking to and mad-dogging a youth , what do you thing I am a grown-up?" Zero points Kerley
You don't get it.
Kerley obviously wouldn't be "trash talking to and mad-dogging a youth" in the tent with him at a large open meet where youth participation is expected and appropriate (e.g. Penn Relays).
His point is the children should not be participating in adult environments, and he considers elite track and field at the global level to be an adult environment.
And he's right. Why should an adult professional need to censor the things that to bring out their best race against other adults, just because a child is in the room?
Nobody is talking about NFL or NHL locker rooms toning it down for children. Why? Because children do not play in these leagues, and rightfully not. (e.g. NHL has an 18 y.o. minimum.)
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Fred K so right wrote:
I agree that changing around the first two legs was a mistake.
They should have moved the alternate in to anchor and kept the other three in the same order.
But it isn't reasonable to say that Kerley was put on anchor for his ego, after he ran the backstretch brilliantly in the semi with no apparent complaint. It is Noah who caught COVID doing too much unmasked appearances, and the coaches who set the new order.
Yes, it’s unfair to insinuate that Kerley wanted to run the anchor leg when I have no idea. But why did he get moved from the 2nd leg to the 4th? I’ve never heard an explanation from the coach or anyone on the team as to why that change was made. With no one taking accountability for the error it’s hard not think about all the various possible reasons.
Was anything ever reported on why that decision was made?
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