I mean, theoretically, someone like Hoppel, Arop, or Kessler can get to 1200m in 2:45 if they went all out, obviously it's not easy. I meant that the lights take the guesswork out of pacing perfectly, there is no reason not to be able to go 55.2-55.2-55 if you have a blue light to chase around the track.
You're talking like 2.45.4 is a walk in the park here pal - "just set the lights and go - easy, no guessing" - maybe you should just lace them up and do it for Jakob?
Lol. Can you not see that I was talking about the "pacing"? Maybe they do or don't get to 2:45.4, the point is, the lights make it easy to evenly pace it at that speed. There is no reason for them to open up in 54 low and then 56 high. I personally think someone in peak fitness from the list I mentioned can get to 2:45.4 but the point is that the lights take the "guesswork" out of opening too fast or too slow. You just do it and survive as long as possible. Obviously not easy physically.
The lights make this 10x easier. As long as they are programmed well and Jakob commits to the pace, all the pacers need to do is follow the blue light.
Running at WR pace for 1200 meters is a big "all".
I think Tim C is the most likely candidate for the following reasons:
- He was at 3:28 shape in 2024, if he can get to that shape next year, he should be able to get to 1200 (provider the first pacer does a decent job) on WR pace
- He is a “natural” front-runner, so he won’t stress about leading
- He and Jakob have (at least) an okay relationship (recall the Tokyo bracelet)
- He is a Nike athlete. Jakob might be friends with Nuguse or Hoare but I am not sure that’s something On (or eg Adidas for Kessler) would like to see.
- He has no realistic chance of getting the WR at this point on his career. If Laros or Hocker (also Nike) paced Jakob, they’d be making it harder for themselves to get the WR later in their careers (they both might keep improving to 3:25 shape within the next seasons).
- Whatever amount of $ they can find for this, it probably goes a longer way in Kenya. TimC probably has a lower price as he isn’t as popular/present online compared to the western 1500m guys.
You have to subscribe to aftenposten to read the story, but here is a short summary of some of the questions asked.
Do you already think about world record attempts next summer? I’ve been looking at the dates. The season is slightly different, with a new structure in the diamond league program. But i am running 1500m in Monaco and that is the best place to go for it.
With a late world championship, will you have an earlier peak as well? Certainly. But most important for me to be able to break the world record is the pacer. I need one of the 8 best in the world to pace the race.
Then you’ll have to call your competitors during this winter? I think you will have to get enough money, that is what it comes down to. If they run behind me in the race, they will get an incredible time. So they would rather get the super fast time than pace the race. None of them wants to pace, so where does that leave us?
If you pay them 1 million NOK, wouldnt they do it? Yes, i think most of them would pace for that amount. How much are you willing to pay yourself? Part of the problem is that you are throwing away your money if it is a headwind. Because then it wont work. Maybe one attempt in diamond league in Paris and one in Monaco.
You need a subscription to Aftenposten to read the full story, but here’s a quick summary of the key points. The athlete is already considering world record attempts next summer and has been checking dates, particularly focusing on the 1500m in Monaco, which is known for being ideal for such attempts. With the world championships later in the season, he acknowledges the need to peak earlier. A crucial factor for breaking the record, he says, is having one of the top 8 pacers in the world. However, convincing top runners to pace is challenging since they’d rather compete for fast times themselves. He suggests that a payment of 1 million NOK might be enough to get them to pace, but admits it’s risky—especially if weather conditions like a headwind ruin the attempt.
idk he might think his chance at the record has passed, and it would be really neat to see him pace Jakob’s Tokyo gold and his WR. he’s already going down as one of the classiest and best 1500m athletes of all time
you can use 2 328 kenyans for pacing to 1100 or 1200m. for $. no problem.
these guys are erratic but one would hope they can follow the pacing lights.
they could run a couple of pacing 600 m time trials say 4 days out. good training as well.
or jacob can make a deal with Laros, if he is in peak shape, 328,
where laros paces from 600m to 1200, with a competent jouneyman taking them to 600 to 800m.
in return , jacob could pace laros at sone later date.
make a deal.
nuguse with progression, would be in quite the spot to cash in and ride to the homestretch for free.
im not seeing kerr or hocker quite making it, without their A plus game.
Going for 55.2-55.5 second laps from the front requires a top level form and specific training. You need 3:29 guy. If you get 3:30-3:32 guy they will tire at 1100m or before depending on how good the pacing is to 800m for them.
I think Tim C is the most likely candidate for the following reasons:
- He was at 3:28 shape in 2024, if he can get to that shape next year, he should be able to get to 1200 (provider the first pacer does a decent job) on WR pace
- He is a “natural” front-runner, so he won’t stress about leading
- He and Jakob have (at least) an okay relationship (recall the Tokyo bracelet)
- He is a Nike athlete. Jakob might be friends with Nuguse or Hoare but I am not sure that’s something On (or eg Adidas for Kessler) would like to see.
- He has no realistic chance of getting the WR at this point on his career. If Laros or Hocker (also Nike) paced Jakob, they’d be making it harder for themselves to get the WR later in their careers (they both might keep improving to 3:25 shape within the next seasons).
- Whatever amount of $ they can find for this, it probably goes a longer way in Kenya. TimC probably has a lower price as he isn’t as popular/present online compared to the western 1500m guys.
Tim would be awesome, but he's also a competitor and sees himself winning races and competing for medals. He's a former World Champ. He also makes good money from races via a combination of appearance fees and prize money. You need to go down the pecking order of Kenyans which is why I think R. Cheruiyot and Kipsang are better bets. But most likely, Jakob will just have to accept a pace job between 1000 and 1100. I think that would be enough anyway
I think Tim C is the most likely candidate for the following reasons:
- He was at 3:28 shape in 2024, if he can get to that shape next year, he should be able to get to 1200 (provider the first pacer does a decent job) on WR pace
- He is a “natural” front-runner, so he won’t stress about leading
- He and Jakob have (at least) an okay relationship (recall the Tokyo bracelet)
- He is a Nike athlete. Jakob might be friends with Nuguse or Hoare but I am not sure that’s something On (or eg Adidas for Kessler) would like to see.
- He has no realistic chance of getting the WR at this point on his career. If Laros or Hocker (also Nike) paced Jakob, they’d be making it harder for themselves to get the WR later in their careers (they both might keep improving to 3:25 shape within the next seasons).
- Whatever amount of $ they can find for this, it probably goes a longer way in Kenya. TimC probably has a lower price as he isn’t as popular/present online compared to the western 1500m guys.
Tim would be awesome, but he's also a competitor and sees himself winning races and competing for medals. He's a former World Champ. He also makes good money from races via a combination of appearance fees and prize money. You need to go down the pecking order of Kenyans which is why I think R. Cheruiyot and Kipsang are better bets. But most likely, Jakob will just have to accept a pace job between 1000 and 1100. I think that would be enough anyway
For sure, but you can make that argument for the other Kenyans too. (Indeed they might see themselves with bigger WR potential in the next few years than the seasoned TimC). It’s not like Jakob is asking Tim to pace the WC final, just a regular DL meet that Jakob would most likely win even with poor pacing. I guess it comes down to the right price.
I think it's also about status. Tim isn't just some top six guy, he was once The Man. The last guy to win gold by running gun to tape from the front. Being reduced the pacer is a bit of a comedown from his position, unless he's really good friends with Jakob. I remember that Laura Muir said she'd pace Kipyegon for a WR attempt if it came at the right time of year, but they're friends, not just people who race each other.
I enjoyed reading the Perfect Mile and one part I thought was interesting was that on a previous record attempt, one of Bannister’s pacers jogged and got lapped so could pace later in the race. Perhaps that strategy could be employed again if legal, albeit a lot of people wouldn’t respect the use of that strategy.
Sadly this is illegal according to WA rules. As per the technical handbook:
6.3.1 Pacing in races by persons not participating in the same race, by athletes lapped or about to be lapped or by any kind of technical device (other than those permitted under Rule 6.4.4 of the Technical Rules).
Bannister fan wrote wrote:
He ran 4:02 in that race but the British officials didn’t let it stand as the record. Honestly it’s for the best. I think the same for pace lights. A nice novelty but unsporting . Pacers jogging to get lapped is especially absurd, I can only imagine how out of hand that could get in a 10k
In the 2000s at a small D3 meet in upstate NY there was a deliberate attempt at this "lag lap pacing". There were only 5-7 racers in the field and one was distinctly better than the rest, so his brother entered and paced through ~2k which was a hard effort for the pacer, then moved out to lane 2 and slowed dramatically for ~ 3 mins. In that 3 mins the pacer ran ~650 or 700 M while the racer ran 900-1000m and then the pacer ramped back up and dropped back into lane 1 in front of his brother. He lasted almost another 1.5k before moving out again. The pacer never interfered with any other racer and finished the race. There was some entertaining discourse about whether it was legal. I think everyone knew it wasn't completely above board, but everyone also knew it was kind of cool and that the so-called risk / cost / downside was not worth worrying about.
Jakob should publicly offer $50k to Kerr to pace it with an option to finish the race. It would be a baller move.
(2025 DL races will have individual purses of $30-50k depending on the meet and the event... so a $50k offer would be as much as Wanda is offering to anyone to win the race)
Jakob should publicly offer $50k to Kerr to pace it with an option to finish the race. It would be a baller move.
(2025 DL races will have individual purses of $30-50k depending on the meet and the event... so a $50k offer would be as much as Wanda is offering to anyone to win the race)
If Kerr took them through 2:48, would Ingebrigtsen get a refund?
The solution is perfectly simple. Create a new event, the 1400m. This will eliminate the need for pacers, payoffs, and ensure both a world record and a WC gold. Amirite?