Carpenter was actually not much of an ultra runner. He did Leadville at the end of his career and mostly because he got tired of everyone asking him about it. 100 miles was pretty far out of his range. While a solid record, his Leadville time was not the Mount Everest of ultra records.
Your description seems inaccurate, based off Matt's own recap. He seemed to be highly motivated for his attempt and it was years in the making. Highly recommend reading this
No, Matt wasn't an ultra runner (ultras are usually considered 50km and up) - he was a mountain/"sky" runner, running mostly 10mi-Marathon distance races. Lake City 50 in 2004 was his first 50miler
I ran in college and spent a few years chasing an OT qualifier, so I am not exactly inexperienced at longer runs, but I have never done an ultra. One thing I was asking myself on my 15-miler yesterday is whether people change their clothing during an Ultra. I was thinking about Leadville and noticing that 12 miles into my own run, I was already dripping wet. Of course, I am in the southeast US and not in Colorado, but I think even out there I would have to change socks, shorts, and shirts at least 2x to avoid MAJOR chafing. It doesn't look like he did that per the Strava pictures. Do successful Ultra runners just not sweat?
I ran in college and spent a few years chasing an OT qualifier, so I am not exactly inexperienced at longer runs, but I have never done an ultra. One thing I was asking myself on my 15-miler yesterday is whether people change their clothing during an Ultra. I was thinking about Leadville and noticing that 12 miles into my own run, I was already dripping wet. Of course, I am in the southeast US and not in Colorado, but I think even out there I would have to change socks, shorts, and shirts at least 2x to avoid MAJOR chafing. It doesn't look like he did that per the Strava pictures. Do successful Ultra runners just not sweat?
Honestly, the sweat issue is what has been keeping me away from ultras. I swear I would sweat too much and just not be able to replace it fast enough. Does anyone have any insight on the sweat issues?
I ran in college and spent a few years chasing an OT qualifier, so I am not exactly inexperienced at longer runs, but I have never done an ultra. One thing I was asking myself on my 15-miler yesterday is whether people change their clothing during an Ultra. I was thinking about Leadville and noticing that 12 miles into my own run, I was already dripping wet. Of course, I am in the southeast US and not in Colorado, but I think even out there I would have to change socks, shorts, and shirts at least 2x to avoid MAJOR chafing. It doesn't look like he did that per the Strava pictures. Do successful Ultra runners just not sweat?
It's not as humid in Colorado. Although this weekend was for sure on the warmer side in Leadville (it was not a cool year!). I put band-aids on my nipples and then lube up with a product like Squirrels Nut Butter in the groin area for long ultras. With proper fitting clothing and good socks/shoes I've never had major blister/chafe issues....even for 100-milers. Although a shirt change is not a bad idea during a long overnight ultra like UTMB (base layer at least).
Roche ran super well and strong all day....hats off to him. He's a monster high altitude runner (likely high Vo2max) and Leadville seems to suite his strengths well (granted it was his first 100-miler!). Some big names like Max King and Rob Krar (and of course Krupicka/Carpenter) have attempted Leadville....so the time certainly is a very good CR now. I would've said Krar's time actually was "tied" for the CR before also. It's too bad Zach Miller didn't toe the line as well this year.....that could've been a heck of a battle up front!
Like I've always said Carpenter's Pikes Peak Marathon Record is the one "unbeatable" one. It is leaps and bounds better than his Leadville and SJ50 times relatively imo (as now both of those records have been broken). No body is touching that Pikes Peak Marathon time though.
Anyway, congrats to David. The guy knows his stuff and is a very talented runner as well!
Like I've always said Carpenter's Pikes Peak Marathon Record is the one "unbeatable" one. It is leaps and bounds better than his Leadville and SJ50 times relatively imo (as now both of those records have been broken). No body is touching that Pikes Peak Marathon time though.
Some nice footage here of the 1993 PPM when Matt set that record:
I have a question I'm sure someone in this thread could answer. From chapter 17 of Born to Run: "Carpenter began spending hundreds of hours on a treadmill to measure the variations in body oscillations when, for instance, he took a sip of water (the most biomechanically efficient way to hold a water bottle was tucked into his armpit, not held in his hand)."
Is this suggesting that even in the early 2000s no one was using a camelbak-type system or fuel belt in ultras? Or would that tech have been considered cheating (or just unsporting) in those days?
Congratulations to David. I doubt many on LRC realize the difficulty and accomplishment of this record being broken.
When I heard his name mentioned of being ahead of record pace the first thing that came to mind was, “Is that the same guy that coaches Allie O?” He seems to be very positive in her videos. Didn’t realize he was at such a high level in ultra racing. The Brojos need to have him on the podcast, because this is certainly an impressive race performance.
He does his own podcast weekly with his wife, "Some stuff, all play", if you want to check it out
Roche ran super well and strong all day....hats off to him. He's a monster high altitude runner (likely high Vo2max) and Leadville seems to suite his strengths well (granted it was his first 100-miler!).
Interestingly, he's mentioned that he's heterogeneous for hereditary hemochromatosis and also supplements w/ iron (hopefully closely monitored). Plus the ketones... So yeah, it seems like he's highly optimized for high altitude.
All these trail supershoes have devalued David Carpenter's 15:42 course record. Man to man I assure everybody that nobody beats David's record at all!!!! And that's because the men in the Y generation are a bunch of little weaklings!!!!! They should not and would not be beating the Roger Bannisters of yesteryear!!!!
I beg to differ on the course records set in the supershoe era. It's hugely unfair, Roche isn't supposed to be fitter than Rob Krar who in turn isn't supposed to be fitter than David Carpenter who in turn isn't supposed to be fitter than all our grandmas, you feeling me Sage??????
But because of these supershoes, you and I are forced to imbibe the unreal illusion that Roche is fitter than Rob Krar who in turn is fitter than David Carpenter who in turn is fitter than all our grandmas!!!!
The assumption that human health, well-being and its indicators like fitness and physiology MUST slide and deteriorate in space and time is SACROSANCT HENCE IMPREGNABLE!!!!!! Just like God the same, you feeling me Sage???? Applies to all departments of life and Roche in high performance ultra marathons isn't changing that sacrosanct model and assumption of truth because he ain't God!!!!
I trust my Scripture!!!!
Cheers :)
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
On his podcast, him and wife joked about completing a certain type of duathalon that involves completing a 100-miler and a could activity all within 24 hours
15 hrs and change would give him plenty of time to spare, even after a little bit of celebrating and some Taco Bell to refuel. I wonder if he got the deed done.
I have a question I'm sure someone in this thread could answer. From chapter 17 of Born to Run: "Carpenter began spending hundreds of hours on a treadmill to measure the variations in body oscillations when, for instance, he took a sip of water (the most biomechanically efficient way to hold a water bottle was tucked into his armpit, not held in his hand)."
Is this suggesting that even in the early 2000s no one was using a camelbak-type system or fuel belt in ultras? Or would that tech have been considered cheating (or just unsporting) in those days?
They existed, but were far from the svelte running packs of today. Any camelbak-style hydration at that time was focused for hikers or mountain bikers, so were either large and unwieldy to run in, or were not designed to be tightly cinched and would bounce all over the place. Belts were available but suffered from the same unwieldy/bouncy problem. Salomon and others really didn't start making running-specific packs until the 2010s, and really didn't get "good" by today's standards until the second half of that decade. Even in 2013-2014 hard bottles in the chest pockets were the standard, rather than soft flasks.
Even with the good technology of today, some people prefer to carry bottles. Whether for easier refills, or less weight, or better cooling (packs can really stifle breathability of your torso).
I have a question I'm sure someone in this thread could answer. From chapter 17 of Born to Run: "Carpenter began spending hundreds of hours on a treadmill to measure the variations in body oscillations when, for instance, he took a sip of water (the most biomechanically efficient way to hold a water bottle was tucked into his armpit, not held in his hand)."
Is this suggesting that even in the early 2000s no one was using a camelbak-type system or fuel belt in ultras? Or would that tech have been considered cheating (or just unsporting) in those days?
You’d be shocked how far hydration tech has come in the past 10 years. Watch videos of old races - many people are dual wielding bottles, tucking them in shorts, etc. Vests nowadays are amazing thanks to progress from Salomon and the likes working with pros. This is likely a factor in longer race (WS100, Leadville, etc) records going down. Would love to see how someone like Geoff Roes would do if they were in their prime today
Be sure to let us know next time you run 9:16/mile pace for 💯 miles at >10k elevation, with >15,000' elevation gain over a >12,600' pass (twice). So easy practically anyone could do it!
I always assumed idiots who post things like this likely haven't ever run a trail marathon, much less a trail ultra, especially one that starts at 2 miles of elevation.
While Leadville certainly isn't a technical course (most of it is pretty runnable, except Hope and coming back up Powerline inbound), it's also not something you can turn your brain off and just cruise like Tunnel Hill or something that's on rail-to-trail.
Personally, the biggest issues I had were related to nutrition. I had a hard time getting enough calories in at that altitude, something that wasn't an issue at 5-6k' here in Denver during training.
I still dual wield handheld bottles. Those vests don't make any bit of difference other than maybe for races with extended climbs where poles can help. I don't think times have gotten faster because of vests tho.
Like I've always said Carpenter's Pikes Peak Marathon Record is the one "unbeatable" one. It is leaps and bounds better than his Leadville and SJ50 times relatively imo (as now both of those records have been broken). No body is touching that Pikes Peak Marathon time though.
Some nice footage here of the 1993 PPM when Matt set that record:
Wow, thanks for posting the video! I've never seen it and perhaps it sheds some light on the timeless saga of why nobody has even sniffed Matt's 3:16 in 30+ years? (Ergo - maybe somebody can decipher some kind of course variance between them and now, unlikely as it may seem). Me, I just see a very fit guy cruising up the switchbacks like a boss! And I didn't realize he was rocking those locks at the time... 🤣
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