Mondo is the most specific person made for one particular event. Phelps in swimming is a better known example but the French kid is replacing him slowly. We will never see another person as perfectly suited for the pole vault as Mondo. A natural that was nurtured from an early age. I do not think this makes him the GOAT of an entire sport though.
He is obviously the best vaulter ever. He is just not better than Crouser or Bolt who have 3 golds in one event (Bolt is obviously the GOAT of track and field with back to back to back golds in the 100, 200, and relay).
no. he does a very low participation event. an event that is very difficult to even find a coach for, even if you do have interest. very technical. very niche. very expensive. shallow talent pool.
of course he is a tremendous athlete though. and pole vault is extremely difficult to master.
Since before Tokyo I have found myself watching the PV just until the 2nd place athlete fails out. I enjoy seeing that 2nd person try to make the next height. As for Mondo I am really not interested at all. It's become too repetitive and predictable. Whether he's going to push up the record a couple more centimeters or not - meh... and then the whole milking every second before he needs to jump again, putting away the pole, putting clothes back on, taking off the spikes and then stripping down again and retrieving the pole each time to then stand there for a few minutes before trying to get the crowd back into it. It's just not that interesting sticking around to watch for 5-10 seconds of inconsequential action.
It's like the street performers in Times Square who spend a good 30 minutes hyping up their final move - a flip over 3 people.. and by the time they get around to maybe attempting it you've had more than enough. It's not even like a bad movie you've watched halfway through and need to finish. Mondo jumping is a movie I'm happy to turn off early.
He is obviously the best vaulter ever. He is just not better than Crouser or Bolt who have 3 golds in one event (Bolt is obviously the GOAT of track and field with back to back to back golds in the 100, 200, and relay).
No comparison in terms of competitiveness and ultimately the achievements. 100M gold > PV gold every time.
We need to look at their competition. Throughout his run, Crouser has had to contend with Joe Kovacs, the second-best shot putter of all time. There is no Kovacs-level rival for Mondo. Lavillenie has been a shell of his peak self the past few years, and there isn't anyone else in the pole vault like Kovacs.
Penalizing Crouser for having to deal with Kovacs would be like penalizing Geb because he had to deal with Tergat.
In summary:
More gold medals: Crouser
Unprecedented dominance in his event: Crouser
Breaking the world record by a larger percentage: Crouser
Dominating better competition: Crouser
Using a ball that's the same weight as his predecessors rather than benefitting from a lighter pole: Crouser
Crouser wins.
Nobody is arguing Crouser doesn't have a better career than Mondo. The argument is that Mondo is more dominant over his competition, which you seem to agree with?
Yeah that's hard to argue. I only tried PV and SP for fun as a young kid before sticking to just running events, so I don't really have any personal attachment to either of them... BUT it's really hard for me to care much about PV because of Mondo's dominance. It's just boring with everyone done and then Mondo milking each attempt at which point the competition is over anyway. SP is still interesting because they have to give it their best each attempt and you just don't know if someone will pop a big one and snatch victory from the likes of Crouser.
goat discussions are generally an exercise of futility
as in all sports, i don't think there is ever a true goat, but there are those who have transcended their sport such that it becomes an artistic performance. i do believe mondo has attained that level already, despite only being 24 years old.
here's a few data points i find interesting: (times in bold below are run while 18)
mondo ran the 100 just twice his senior of high school (age 18) and had a PR of 10.57. that same season he went 19'5.5" (5.93), which is 2cm below the silver medal performance of the current Olympic games, and he did it at the Louisiana state meet! it is not at all unreasonable to think a just-graduated high-school mondo could have won the 2024 Olympic PV!
kenny bednarek was a dedicated sprinter in high school and had a PR of 10.42 his sr year, but that was just 4 months before he turned 20! as a junior kenny specialized in the 200 and 400, but like mondo he ran the 100 twice and his PR was 10.88 (200 21.34, 400 46.19). his current PR is 9.87
fred kerley didn't run the open 100 in high school (can't find results anyway), though he did run the sprint relays, the 200 and TJ. as a freshman in college, 2 months before turning 19 he had a season best in the 100 of 10.56. his current PR is 9.76
noah lyles as a junior (one month before turning 18) had a PR of 10.47. as a senior (two months before turning 19) his PR was 10.14. his current PR is 9.79
so at the same age, mondo (specializing in the PV) was .31 faster than bednarek in the 100, .01 slower than kerley and .43 slower than lyles.
to think Mondo is excelling in PV because it's a niche event or anything along those lines is obviously ignorant.
6.25 / 5.93 = 1.0539 (current PV PR divided by high school PR) 10.57 / 1.0539 = 10.03
having only run the 100 twice in HS, i don't think it's unreasonable to estimate his current 100 capacity (given a few months of focusing on it exclusively and doing several races) as being right around 10-flat.
does mondo have the potential to medal in the 100 at the olympics? prob not, but i would not be surprised to see him make the final in 2028 if that became his obsession the next 4 years.
or, he could take a serious shot at the decathlon world record if he fancied that.
Hate threads like this, he is a good athlete, he is not great, he is great at pole vaulting, but and this is a big, but. What do you think an elite NFL player could do in pole vault ??(hint better then Mondo) BUT THEY WON"T EVER DO IT.
Congrats to Mondo and enjoy, I think if he had a rival and was beaten once or twice, people would love him more, this cm by cm world record crap has got to go....boring
"he is not great"
You have to be kidding me!
I'm not going to sit here and type out all of his accomplishments, but look earlier in the thread. What you've said is crazy. He's an amazing athlete!
GOAT arguments are futile and extremely subjective. Since criterion varies and includes some questionable factors let me state that Mondo should be the GOAT because he has an amazingly beautiful and sexy girlfriend.
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