I am no longer coaching in NCAA Division 1, but one thing not to overlook is mechanics. I'd rather take a kid running 35 miles week with picture perfect form than someone faster with an biomechanical flaw hammering out double that mileage.
This. Running economy. Gives a coach a lot to work with.
Can they cover ground efficiently or do they seem to be fighting themselves to go fast? Mileage can cure a lack of running economy only up to a point.
Of course that being said it never hurts to have a committed runner determined to excel in spite of their biomechanical flaws. They can influence the natural/talented runners to step up.
If there is a kid with intrusive parents they may be arriving to campus with a lot of emotional baggage. Unneeded pressure from the parents, being told they aren't good enough all the time. They may arrive to campus unable to handle the pressure of everything else. An athlete with laid back and supportive parents may have a wider net to fall back on and feel more empowered to be successful and take risks in racing and training. I've seen stuff like this first hand with teammates of mine.
Malmo, I appreciate the old school mindset as there is still certainly a place for that at times, but we are seeing more and more coaches like Mike Smith who aren't high-macho authoritarians. Kids these days respond well to that, while other kids may need to be bludgeoned into motivation.
How will you know these things about parents without giving them a questionnaire or interviewing neighbors. No coach is going to screw up a kid’s chances of getting a scholarship by badmouthing a parent. You would need a PI to dig up the dirt you’re looking for.
Nope. You just have to go to a meet and see them. It's not really that hard to read people but I can see how letsrun's neurodivergent posters would struggle with that.
If there is a kid with intrusive parents they may be arriving to campus with a lot of emotional baggage. Unneeded pressure from the parents, being told they aren't good enough all the time. They may arrive to campus unable to handle the pressure of everything else. An athlete with laid back and supportive parents may have a wider net to fall back on and feel more empowered to be successful and take risks in racing and training. I've seen stuff like this first hand with teammates of mine.
Malmo, I appreciate the old school mindset as there is still certainly a place for that at times, but we are seeing more and more coaches like Mike Smith who aren't high-macho authoritarians. Kids these days respond well to that, while other kids may need to be bludgeoned into motivation.
Where the eff did you get the idea that I suggested coaches be "high macho authoritarians".?
He didn't say you did, but the way you responded is telling lol
Some do, with high numbers being a significant red flag in some cases. That’s straight from a successful D1 coach as I sat in his office during a campus visit w my daughter.
… if there are 2 kids, both ran 9:05 by senior year but kid 1 has been running competitively since middle school and putting in 80mpw and kid 2 just started running in HS and is only on 40mpw, i'd want kid 2.
… One of the great things about track is that you definitely can look at straight times and it's a great starting point. However, if that were the case then the fastest kids would be the fastest kids in college ALWAYS. Yet, you hear about unheralded kids who ran 9:20 in high school end up on olympic teams …
A lot of people look at an athlete's mileage and decide whether or not they have potential. That is rarely the deciding factor. Can any D1 coaches provide insight into what they look for in athletes at the high school level that may lead to collegiate success?
Here are some things I've been told by some coaching friends:
- Size in the mid distance events. A lot of coaches like tall, lanky, strong mid distance athletes. They look for kids who haven't had much speed development since most high school coaches just throw mileage at them for the 800.
- Distance athletes with grit. Not so much the training they've already done, but how they perform in imperfect situations (like a hot state meet championship or after being sick all week)
- Good grades since it shows the athlete can make sacrifices and have discipline, but also understand cues you give them more deeply than other athletes. Their memory retention is better.
- Leader types. People who get along with many and have leadership qualities.
What do you guys think?
I spoke with a couple of 'special' D1 schools but ended up committing to a D3 school. In my case, after seeing my times (both D1 and D3), the academic preread was just as important.
From how I understood it, there's x number of admissions slots (though I'm not sure if it's per team or for all athletes for the buckets), and there are either 8 or 9 buckets athletes can go in (1st bucket would be like 3.0 gpa, 1200 SAT; 8th would be 4.0 GPA and 1570+). I was very strongly encouraged to retake the SAT / ACT multiple times to move into a better bucket, so the coach doesn't have to use as strong support to get you in since your academics were already similar to the student population (even the diversity and donor admits) as a whole.
And your daughter wasn't running high mileage. The next week he had a 4:45 miler in his office telling her how great it was that she was doing 55 MPW so that he knows she won't have to make a huge jump and risk injury.
The coach is the coach. It's OK for an athlete to collaborate on personalizing a training plan but, the coach does not want to deal with an athlete that thinks he/she knows better or falls in love with the latest method that they read about online.
LRC? Yes, some coaches ask about that. This site is not held in very high regard because of the message board. Also, the coach doesn't want his athletes trolling rivals, giving away program information, or embarrassing the program after being doxxed for writing awful things. My kid said that her team was warned about LRC on orientation day and they were asked to not use it or post on it.
Love for the sport is important. Coaches are seeking how athletes are motivated. They want to know if the athlete is process oriented or results oriented? Are they coming to State U. to improve and contribute, or are they just looking for money and an ego boost? Do they get along with others? Can they lose with grace and learn from losses? If they are state champions or NXN placers, are they able to stay focused while waiting their turn at a traveling spot or do they need star recognition right away? They want collaborators and not cancers. Love for the sport isn't conveyed by having an encyclopedic knowledge of records and results. Coaches are not looking for fans, they are looking for youngsters with a growth and a championship mindset.
I feel like the best thing to say would be something like "I've heard of it, I've seen YouTube videos and race recaps, but I don't really visit the forums". They know you're not 100% honest but nobody's admitting to sh!tposting on the boards.
Every coach is trying to get athletes that will help them in the future. Everyone is trying to acquire talent. Why talent? It is the most reliable metric.
Knowing how the highschool kid trained is one piece of the talent evaluation. Body type, sport history, maturity are a part of the calculus but at the end of the day talent wins.
You can search for grit and determination or kids that “love running” but all of that can change in college. Kids get into other things, the competition is depressingly hard. You can be the grittiest highschool runner and totally lose interest, join a frat and start chasing internships.
Every coach knows they are going to miss in recruiting but you try to limit those risk factors. I had a boss always say “hey not everyone pans out but can we miss on kids great marks, have the right body type, and have good grades? I’ll take a chance on those kids “
“And your daughter wasn't running high mileage. The next week he had a 4:45 miler in his office telling her how great it was that she was doing 55 MPW so that he knows she won't have to make a huge jump and risk injury.”
Daughter was 45-50 as a HS senior; he was talking about those who were well north of 55, of which just about everyone was aware.
So happens I was a successful D1 athlete myself, so sifting thru the recruiting rap wasn’t new to me.
You missed the point. He was recruiting g your daughter. The next week when a top recruit came on a visit who had a PR of 4:45 and was doing gigh mileage, the coach didn't tell her that he didn't like her training. He instead said that she would be a perfect fit for his team. He told her that she would transition to college training with ease since she is already doing similar training. Bottom line is that the coach is selling his team to the fastest recruits.
“The next week he had a 4:45 miler in his office telling her how great it was that she was…”
There were already a bunch of those on that campus (who had ran similar times in HS). She ended up choosing that school, in part, because there WAS competition already in-place. There is no substitute for training w champions every day. ;)
“Bottom line is that the coach is selling his team to the fastest recruits.“
And, in that pursuit, that coach as a matter of practice, spent some time judging how much potential upside was left in an individual’s performance. Part of that judgment included an understanding of what times had been produced for what level of effort in a given program.
They take the fastest kids they can get. It is that simple. No top program passed up an 8:45 for an 8:55.
That's a specific situation that only affects .1% of recruiting classes. I know a very successful program who offered money to a 9:06 athlete and had a sub 9 athlete walk on.
I think it's much more relavent for the 2nd or 3rd tier of recruits - think 9:00 to 9:10
Someone running 9:10 from a rural school with no history of track whatsoever is (rightfully) viewed to have more upside than someone running 9:10 from newbury park or a top Utah / Colorado school (assuming their 9:10 was at sea level).
"If Hannibal Lecter ran a 4.3, we'd say he had eating disorder" - former Arizona Cardinals GM
This isn't to such an extent in college track / XC, but if someone's running under 10.10 in the 100 or under 8:40 in the 3200 (obviously a different person for both), a lot of flaws will be viewed as minor because of how much they could contribute.
In my experience, I've definitely seen it play out a bit - track / XC won't have the 7 figure NIL deals like football (or basketball), but top athletes have much more leeway with personal flaws (think incredibly self-centered / not team-oriented, lazy outside of running, entitled) than a 4:15 guy trying to walk on
Sprint talent and distance talent are not created equally. A 10.10 prep 100 meter runner has a 50/50 shot of being an all-american as a college freshman and is a shoe-in for a spot on a sub 39 relay. Also, although not every 10.1 hs runner goes on to be world class, it's rare for the 10.4 HS guy to outperform the 10.1 HS guy in college
A 8:39 prep 2 miler has around a 25 percent chance of being an all American in xc freshman year and about a 10 percent chance of scoring at track nationals. Additionally, 8:55 - 9:05 preps eventually surpass 8:45 preps often enough for coaches to at least consider diamond in the rough prospects.
you're asking what coaches -- plural -- would do. time and placements, as well as how someone looks running and racecraft, are going to be fairly objective and consistent coach to coach.
the mileage theories are cute but utterly subjective and in practice ambivalent. one coach likes you for running a lot, durability, another likes you for running too little for your time, all upside if they train more. one guy is the time itself is proof of concept, another is breaking down the nuts and bolts. the concerns about what is under the hood likely increase as the runner gets slower.
if you're seeking the unified field theory, you can see how the first set "is" going to be a consistent issue, the second training concern "depends" and might play backwards of how you think. a coach who likes you might get a chuckle out of how much you have done on how little.
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