1:44 means nothing for the 1500m when Jakob is running 3:27
I believe the fastest Jakob has closed over the last 200m is ~26 seconds. Whightman's 1:44.1 is around this pace for a whole 800m, which is relevant.
That said, Whitman ran a 1:43.65 the year he beat Jakob, so while on track, I'd like to see him dip below 1:44 before I start to think him beating Jakob is reasonably plausible.
1:44 means nothing for the 1500m when Jakob is running 3:27
I believe the fastest Jakob has closed over the last 200m is ~26 seconds. Whightman's 1:44.1 is around this pace for a whole 800m, which is relevant.
That said, Whitman ran a 1:43.65 the year he beat Jakob, so while on track, I'd like to see him dip below 1:44 before I start to think him beating Jakob is reasonably plausible.
We also need to see Jakob race at all. 1:44.1 in May is plenty. It signals he will be 1:43 mid shape in August.
I guess half of El Guerrouj’s WC wins were gimmicks and not real wins then since he was paced in them. If Jakob had someone every year pace him at the WC and he won in 3:26-3:27 every time, would those wins count? Do wightman and Kerrs wins not count since they were technically paced by Jakob? This logic is so dumb. The BEST runner is the one who wins the most consistently and runs the FASTEST. This excuse of “oh he is not the best racer” hides the fact that his competitors are just not as good as him in fitness. This is why I call distance championships clown events. The world leaders rarely win and when they do its just a cherry on top of their world record performances and winning streaks at the highest level meets in the world.
If Jakob runs 3:26.5 with a rabbit and still loses when it counts, yes his 3:26.5 would still be gimmicky. Because if you can’t win without rabbits, you aren’t a true racer. You can claim to be the best time trial runner all you want. But you will be chopped liver for medals.
If you need to use or recruit others, it’s gimmicky. Which is why championship medals count more than Diamond League races.
I will tell you what is in your blind angle: The few runners who have beat Jakob the last 2 season´s won because they had Jakob as the pacemaker?
See how it went for Wightman in the Common Wealth 1500m final in 2022 and for Kerr in the DL Zürich 2023 1500m WHEN THEY HAVE NO PACERS.
That said, Whitman ran a 1:43.65 the year he beat Jakob, so while on track, I'd like to see him dip below 1:44 before I start to think him beating Jakob is reasonably plausible.
He ran 1:43.65 in September, 2 months after he beat Jakob. The same year in May he ran 1:46 twice.
So either Jake peaked way too early this year, or he is in a truly beastly shape.
1:44 is barely elite: over THREE SECONDS off the WR in the 800.
Meanwhile, Jakob is within TWO seconds of the WR in the 1500.
Wightman is not on the same level as Jakob.
1:44 is elite speed for a 1500m runner. If Jake trained only for 800m this season, I'm sure he would medal with 1:43 mid in Paris.
Also, I suspect that Kerr and Jake (and maybe Nuguse) could dip under 3:29 in Paris and Jakob would have to run 3:27-3:28 in order to win. A tough task for someone who delt with an achilles injury this year.
Is this the level of debate you want: You calling me stupid without any reasoning, and me maybe doing the same back (without arguments at all)..?
You don't have any arguments, only vague pseudo psychological projections. Him wanting to win in a dominant fashion is not even close to him considering fcking OLYMPICS a clown race. Watch the last episode of Team Ingebrigtsen again and tell me with a straight face that Olympics is a clown race to him. Give me one quote where he says that his Silesia run was more important to him that his Olympics gold. You can't. All you do is project your infantile view of the sport on a person who happens to be good at time trialing.
Is this the level of debate you want: You calling me stupid without any reasoning, and me maybe doing the same back (without arguments at all)..?
You don't have any arguments, only vague pseudo psychological projections. Him wanting to win in a dominant fashion is not even close to him considering fcking OLYMPICS a clown race. Watch the last episode of Team Ingebrigtsen again and tell me with a straight face that Olympics is a clown race to him. Give me one quote where he says that his Silesia run was more important to him that his Olympics gold. You can't. All you do is project your infantile view of the sport on a person who happens to be good at time trialing.
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“Very happy with winning the 5k, but for me its…I find it more important to do my best and I was not able to that in this championship because of obviously with the virus and everything. For me thats more important than winning medals.”
“Very happy with winning the 5k, but for me its…I find it more important to do my best and I was not able to that in this championship because of obviously with the virus and everything. For me thats more important than winning medals.”
🥱
This is the last time I respond to you sub 90 iq brainlets so listen carefully: HIM WANTING TO REACH HIS FULL POTENTIAL AND RUN AS FAST AS HE CAN IS NOT THE SAME THING AS HIM THINKING THAT WORLDS AND OLYMPICS ARE CLOWN RACES. That is your own addition that has nothing to do with Jakob. The claim was that Jakob agrees with you and that other autist that olympics is a clown race. Your quote only shows that "doing his best" is more important to him that the medals. That is not the same thing as saying "medal races are clown races".
Is this the level of debate you want: You calling me stupid without any reasoning, and me maybe doing the same back (without arguments at all)..?
You don't have any arguments, only vague pseudo psychological projections. Him wanting to win in a dominant fashion is not even close to him considering fcking OLYMPICS a clown race. Watch the last episode of Team Ingebrigtsen again and tell me with a straight face that Olympics is a clown race to him. Give me one quote where he says that his Silesia run was more important to him that his Olympics gold. You can't. All you do is project your infantile view of the sport on a person who happens to be good at time trialing.
Well, “Snowflakes” answered very good here (by linking the Jakob interview). But of course it’s not black and white -you are obviously right when you claim that Jakob not only views the Olympics as a clown race. And yes, that win meant something to him. But you have to consider the context: Once it was really important to Jakob to beat Cheruiyot (Because he had never beaten him before). And once it was a dream come true to win the Olympics (because he never had won a global champs). And Jakob still admits it’s really important to win the WC 1500m (because he never has -so contrary to almost everyone WC is more important to him than the Olympics; he’s just honest).
But all that doesn’t mean he has changed his perspective (he repeats it in interviews): He needs to win championships because that’s a necessary thing to be considered the best. So in that perspective they are not clown races. But his main agenda is to be the best version of himself -meaning running so fast that he doesn’t need to care about who he beats, or about tactics or other people’s views. In that way his wins (also the champ ones) will merely be a byproduct of his shape -therefore this lack of interest in his competitors. -They’re just the next guys (he isn’t negative to others per ce; they just not concern him -he’s a (fast) runner, not a racer). And since it’s harder to run fast in the champs (especially a hot weather 5000m) these are clown races. But as I said still important and necessary…
1:44 means nothing for the 1500m when Jakob is running 3:27
I believe the fastest Jakob has closed over the last 200m is ~26 seconds. Whightman's 1:44.1 is around this pace for a whole 800m, which is relevant.
That said, Whitman ran a 1:43.65 the year he beat Jakob, so while on track, I'd like to see him dip below 1:44 before I start to think him beating Jakob is reasonably plausible.
Whitman and Whightman - could they be related to Wightman?
1:44 means nothing for the 1500m when Jakob is running 3:27
Correct.
1:44 is barely elite: over THREE SECONDS off the WR in the 800.
Meanwhile, Jakob is within TWO seconds of the WR in the 1500.
Wightman is not on the same level as Jakob.
Except when they run the 800, when he's at least 2 seconds faster. Which means he can outsprint Jakob at the finish - as he has proved in a WC 1500 final. So he was on a higher level there over the 1500. As was Kerr a year later.
If Jakob runs 3:26.5 with a rabbit and still loses when it counts, yes his 3:26.5 would still be gimmicky. Because if you can’t win without rabbits, you aren’t a true racer. You can claim to be the best time trial runner all you want. But you will be chopped liver for medals.
If you need to use or recruit others, it’s gimmicky. Which is why championship medals count more than Diamond League races.
I will tell you what is in your blind angle: The few runners who have beat Jakob the last 2 season´s won because they had Jakob as the pacemaker?
See how it went for Wightman in the Common Wealth 1500m final in 2022 and for Kerr in the DL Zürich 2023 1500m WHEN THEY HAVE NO PACERS.
I think you are intentionally missing the point. Jakob becomes the default pacer because he does not have enough to compete if the race is slow. So far, it's his fatal flaw.
What we are talking about is gimmicky are pace lights and ENTRANTS who have ZERO
I will tell you what is in your blind angle: The few runners who have beat Jakob the last 2 season´s won because they had Jakob as the pacemaker?
See how it went for Wightman in the Common Wealth 1500m final in 2022 and for Kerr in the DL Zürich 2023 1500m WHEN THEY HAVE NO PACERS.
I think you are intentionally missing the point. Jakob becomes the default pacer because he does not have enough to compete if the race is slow. So far, it's his fatal flaw. What we are talking about is gimmicky are pace lights and ENTRANTS who have ZERO INTENTIONS of finishing the race.
This is the last time I respond to you sub 90 iq brainlets so listen carefully: HIM WANTING TO REACH HIS FULL POTENTIAL AND RUN AS FAST AS HE CAN IS NOT THE SAME THING AS HIM THINKING THAT WORLDS AND OLYMPICS ARE CLOWN RACES. That is your own addition that has nothing to do with Jakob. The claim was that Jakob agrees with you and that other autist that olympics is a clown race. Your quote only shows that "doing his best" is more important to him that the medals. That is not the same thing as saying "medal races are clown races".
I think you take this way too literally -not good for your blood pressure. So listen: I think neither “snowflakes” nor I or Jakob regard the champs as only clown races. And I would be surprised if Jakob chooses to call them that…
Rudisha’s champs win in 2012 was obviously not a clown race. Nor Cheruiyot’s in 2019. And even Centro’s impressive performance in 2016 qualifies to the label “tactical masterpiece” instead of clownly..! And if a healthy Jakob had soloed a 3.27 in the last WC that also would required a respectful label…
My main point is this: Compared to a whole season of consistency and fast races, the champs get way too much prestige. Especially if there are factors of coincidence (very often) that determines the outcome. F.ex Jakob is in my view an all time great not because of his Olympic gold (that was coincidental because of the delay / covid) but very much because of his other races throughout the years. And Wightman is great, not because of his WC win, but because he PR’ed in that race, and pretty much matched Jakob’s season best. -Jake is great because he was not a one time hitter (that got tactically lucky). Jake won because he managed to build himself up to a excellent runner (contrary to the excellent racer he was when he won Oslo Diamond League in 2017.) Because Jake managed this masterpiece: A pb both in the 3000m and 800m in the same season! So Wightman is, just like Jakob, great because he is good, not because of a win (that he would have missed if f.ex Cheruiyot had been in his 2020 shape). The same with Kerr: Josh is not good because of his Oly bronze or WC gold (both mediocre runs), but because he in the indoor season showed that he had achieved a stamina that overshadows a random lucky win, and shows that he can really be something better than a lousy champ…
Oly and WC races are clown races and not at the same time -they are because of all the coincidentally non running things that surround them (f.ex tactics, not being boxed in, and so on -have nothing to do with running, or the best runner -more related to dart and video games). They are not (clown races) because they are important and not to come around. When it comes to Jakob he clearly (in wording) feels this dualism. But he hasn’t explicitly called them clown races. So maybe it’s 1-1 in this discussion if we have to limit it to what Jakob means. Not bad for an infantile poster like me..!
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