The original title has been changed to make it more accurate. The original title was: Middle schoolers who protested trans athlete in girls shotput competition banned from future competitions.
I hadn't seen your analysis when I posted. There is a specific process for something like this and it wasn't followed. Seems like an easy injunction to get them to compete.
dude, y'all are wandering off on abstractions and assuming some sort of league punishment that has a protest process. those aren't the real facts. as i understand it, the coach had them run extra then benched them. you can now go through and parse some more WV rules. there is no WV rule saying anyone has to start or play each week. i doubt there is any rule where the coach has to have a reason why that would hold up in court.
from the coach's standpoint it's a discipline issue. obviously she didn't sign off.
if i walked on a soccer field then stood there and got run by for a goal as some protest, i am not just benched but maybe even asked for my uniform back and kicked off. you made your point, here's mine back. good luck with your lawsuit about your first amendment rights.
one time in spring soccer practice i skipped an early morning weight workout to study for a midterm that morning. coach benched me the next scrimmage and i played 10 minutes. do i get to "appeal" that anyplace? explain my "valid" reason? no.
If anyone can be accused of wandering off topic, it's you, mate.
In the posts you've made on this thread, you keep veering off the subject of the WV case under discussion to tell us about your own completely irrelevant experiences in school sports - or to speculate about what you imagine would happen in hypothetical situations you've cooked up in your head that are all about you.
In the posts you've made on the previous page alone, you've droned on about anecdotes and imaginary scenarios about your own life that add nothing to the discussion of this case in WV and which are are totally beside the point. Such as:
one time we played a rival in a big serious soccer final. they hadn't ever beat us and were probably unhappy to see us again, and not eager to set a pattern when we play them in league in the fall. 10 minutes we get a chance on goal, keeper takes down our forward, PK, red card. we score PK, 1-0 up. their coach pulls their team in protest. we win the tournament in 10 minutes. no one is going to applaud the opposing team's efficiency in resolving who won, and they might not be invited back.
i mean, i briefly did LJ in junior high. if i run down and then bail and go through the pit, i haven't saved a second, and the raking might take longer than usual. if i walk out to the runway then step back off, over a few jumps we're talking extra minute or so. if i don't intend to compete, i scratch, and they skip me. that is the efficient outcome.
one time in spring soccer practice i skipped an early morning weight workout to study for a midterm that morning. coach benched me the next scrimmage and i played 10 minutes. do i get to "appeal" that anyplace? explain my "valid" reason? no.
if i walked on a soccer field then stood there and got run by for a goal as some protest, i am not just benched but maybe even asked for my uniform back and kicked off. you made your point, here's mine back. good luck with your lawsuit about your first amendment rights.
if you use my sporting event as coach, as your political stage, i might respond by treating you -- specifics ignored -- like an athlete who went to the meet then refused to play. ok, you see jamie over there? she wanted to go to that meet. i took you instead. you didn't compete. next week i take jamie instead.
It's bizarre to me that you seem to take it on faith that your own personal experiences and your imaginary scenarios featuring you in the starring role somehow have a bearing on this case or shed light on it. I don't believe they do.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
20. Following their protest, the minor student athletes did not receive any notice that further action would be taken against them for protesting and forfeiting.
21. During practice the following week, however, the five student athletes who participated in the protest were instructed to run “Indian sprints” by coach Dawn Riestenberg.
22. On April 24, 2024, the minor student athletes attended a press conference with public figures, including Riley Gaines, a national advocate for equality and fairness in women’s sports, statewide officeholders Attorney General Patrick Morrisey and Auditor J.B. McCuskey, and several Republican members of the State Senate and House of Delegates, addressing their protests.
23. The following day, on April 25, 2024, at approximately 4:30 p.m., Plaintiff Mitchell Scott Guthrie spoke with Lincoln Middle School principal Lori Scott, who informed Mr. Guthrie that the student athletes who engaged in the protest, including his daughter, would not be permitted to compete in a scheduled track and field meet on April 27, 2024.
For clarity, I'm voting blue up and down my ballot in November. Punishing those athletes for protesting is utter nonsense. And their "protest" was simply them not throwing. They walked into the ring and quietly, peacefully walked out. How is it now the right of one athlete becomes larger than the rights of these 5 girls? This is twisted. Nobody is preventing trans athletes from competing in sport. They have every opportunity to do so in the boy/male division. Male athletes identifying a female have a significant physical advantage. And if you are going to be willfully ignorant to this fact then whatever you offer as a counter-argument carries zero weight.
Imagine having this brain ^
“I dislike boys competing in girls sports but I will vote to continue it.”
For clarity, I'm voting blue up and down my ballot in November. Punishing those athletes for protesting is utter nonsense. And their "protest" was simply them not throwing. They walked into the ring and quietly, peacefully walked out. How is it now the right of one athlete becomes larger than the rights of these 5 girls? This is twisted. Nobody is preventing trans athletes from competing in sport. They have every opportunity to do so in the boy/male division. Male athletes identifying a female have a significant physical advantage. And if you are going to be willfully ignorant to this fact then whatever you offer as a counter-argument carries zero weight.
You are part of the problem. Why are you "voting blue up and down"? Is that your team? No matter what sort of idiocy they inflict on this country, you're still voting blue. Idiot.
You actually raise a very important point here. When one side is voting for stupid stuff like boys competing in girls' sports, and the other side advocates suspending the constitution and attempts a violent overthrow of our government, who do you vote for?
Nope it hasn’t been banned. They just aren’t allowed to disrupt a track meet to do it.
Any one want to bet that 90% of the people in favor of this were also the ones telling Kapernick to just play ball.
And what type of monster are you that you are in favor of making some 12 year old feel bad about themselves? What type of person does that?
The girls didn't "disrupt a track meet," though. Each of of them simply stepped into the shot put circle, then immediately stepped out, and handed the shot to the official. This took under 10 seconds apiece.
It was a silent, peaceful protest that didn't interfere with the event or with anyone else's rights. None of the girls said a word. They didn't try to stop the meet from occurring. They didn't make a scene that held up or slowed down the meet in the slightest. They didn't try to stop anyone else from competing. They didn't disrupt the track meet in any way.
Also, for the record, the male student-athlete who "identifies as" a girl in this case, Becky Pepper Jackson, isn't 12. A lot of people are lying or fudging to make it seem as though the youth the girls protested competing against in the shot put is a pre-teen child who just started middle school rather than a teenager who's now ending 8th grade and will be in HS when West Virginia students start the new school year in August.
Court filings made on behalf of the trans-identifying male student and press releases about the case say that Becky Pepper Jackson was 11 in May 2021 when the ACLU and other attorneys first lodged the lawsuit claiming that males like Jackson have a right to play and compete in sex-segregated school sports established, designated and meant for female students.
This means Jackson would have been 12 in May 2022 and 13 in May 2023.
In an article recounting a previously-conducted interview with Jackons' mother that was published in Harper's Bazaar on May 15, 2023, Jackson's mother said Becky was 13. So today Becky Pepper Jackson is either 14 or will be turning 14 within the next two weeks.
So let me get this straight: you think it is probably ok to harass 13 year olds? And if they are almost 14 it is definitely ok?
And yes they disrupted the track meet with their selfish behavior. If they didn’t want to compete, they could have stayed home.
The girls didn't "disrupt a track meet," though. Each of of them simply stepped into the shot put circle, then immediately stepped out, and handed the shot to the official. This took under 10 seconds apiece.
It was a silent, peaceful protest that didn't interfere with the event or with anyone else's rights. None of the girls said a word. They didn't try to stop the meet from occurring. They didn't make a scene that held up or slowed down the meet in the slightest. They didn't try to stop anyone else from competing. They didn't disrupt the track meet in any way.
Also, for the record, the male student-athlete who "identifies as" a girl in this case, Becky Pepper Jackson, isn't 12. A lot of people are lying or fudging to make it seem as though the youth the girls protested competing against in the shot put is a pre-teen child who just started middle school rather than a teenager who's now ending 8th grade and will be in HS when West Virginia students start the new school year in August.
Court filings made on behalf of the trans-identifying male student and press releases about the case say that Becky Pepper Jackson was 11 in May 2021 when the ACLU and other attorneys first lodged the lawsuit claiming that males like Jackson have a right to play and compete in sex-segregated school sports established, designated and meant for female students.
This means Jackson would have been 12 in May 2022 and 13 in May 2023.
In an article recounting a previously-conducted interview with Jackons' mother that was published in Harper's Bazaar on May 15, 2023, Jackson's mother said Becky was 13. So today Becky Pepper Jackson is either 14 or will be turning 14 within the next two weeks.
So let me get this straight: you think it is probably ok to harass 13 year olds? And if they are almost 14 it is definitely ok?
And yes they disrupted the track meet with their selfish behavior. If they didn’t want to compete, they could have stayed home.
The middle school track meet controversy may go to the Supreme Court.
The middle school girls who stepped out of the ring instead of throwing the shot against a biological male have now been banned from future competitions.
How is that even constitutional? I'm trying to think of analogies. But the school district is essentially saying they can ban kids who don't try their hardest in a sport from competing again?
I can see how the track coach might have rules or whatnot but can a school district restrict kids from not trying their hardest from competing again?
Don't kids have a right to compete? Say I'm a basketball player and I don't like my coach. And I say "I'm just going to walk on the court" when put in the game. I do that. The coach has a right to not put me in the game because I'm not competitive but I don't think the school district has a right to say I can't play in another game again because they don't like my attitude.
What am I missing?
If it makes you feel better, i think all of us can agree on one thing...no WAY this case will be successful. Stepping out the kids made their point and can certainly take a DQ. But what grounds could anyone "ban" them from competition forever? And before you even say it, no they didn't do anything to keep anyone LGBTQ from competing, so its not even a woke/ non woke issue. So I dont see what anyone could do. God help the schools if they try this. Parents will sue them to kingdom come.
You would need to think a 1 game ban is forever. It really sounds like a coach doing the right thing and enforcing team rules about being respectful while competing rather than doing a bunch of look at me garbage.
If you think it's the trans athletes fault that these kids got in trouble then I reckon you already hated trans people.
As another poster mentioned, it's not up to the middle schoolers to decide who is allowed to compete. Whether you support trans athletes or not, your inability to separate that feeling with the fact that the athletes don't get to decide the rules is immature.
It's likely people on this board would be rooting against the protesting athletes if, instead of protesting a trans athlete, they protested some kid wearing a m*ga hat.
I am unaware of the physical advantage that wearing a m*ga has over those not wearing one.
For clarity, I'm voting blue up and down my ballot in November. Punishing those athletes for protesting is utter nonsense. And their "protest" was simply them not throwing. They walked into the ring and quietly, peacefully walked out. How is it now the right of one athlete becomes larger than the rights of these 5 girls? This is twisted. Nobody is preventing trans athletes from competing in sport. They have every opportunity to do so in the boy/male division. Male athletes identifying a female have a significant physical advantage. And if you are going to be willfully ignorant to this fact then whatever you offer as a counter-argument carries zero weight.
Imagine having this brain ^
“I dislike boys competing in girls sports but I will vote to continue it.”
You are aware you'll be voting in a presidential election this year, not an election to a student council?
“I dislike boys competing in girls sports but I will vote to continue it.”
You are aware you'll be voting in a presidential election this year, not an election to a student council?
Note that "Drive Faze" said he will be voting blue, "up and down my ballot." That means president, Congress, state offices, county offices, and school board. In other words, every policymaker that has impact on allowing boys in women's sports.
It is hard to fathom posters here being this dumb. Face palm.
20. Following their protest, the minor student athletes did not receive any notice that further action would be taken against them for protesting and forfeiting.
21. During practice the following week, however, the five student athletes who participated in the protest were instructed to run “Indian sprints” by coach Dawn Riestenberg.
22. On April 24, 2024, the minor student athletes attended a press conference with public figures, including Riley Gaines, a national advocate for equality and fairness in women’s sports, statewide officeholders Attorney General Patrick Morrisey and Auditor J.B. McCuskey, and several Republican members of the State Senate and House of Delegates, addressing their protests.
23. The following day, on April 25, 2024, at approximately 4:30 p.m., Plaintiff Mitchell Scott Guthrie spoke with Lincoln Middle School principal Lori Scott, who informed Mr. Guthrie that the student athletes who engaged in the protest, including his daughter, would not be permitted to compete in a scheduled track and field meet on April 27, 2024.
But you're missing the point. The main issues in this case aren't what the punishment consists of or how long the punishment lasts. The main issues in this case are:
1) Is it legal for the school/school board to punish the girls in this case at all?
2) Is it within the purview of officials at Lincoln Middle School and on the local school board to take discipinary action against student-athletes for engaging in a peaceful protest at an interscholastic sports event? Or is this the sort of matter that's under jurisdictin of the West VIriginia authorites who regulated interscholastic sports?
3) If it is legal for middle school officials and local school board to punish the girls, did various officials who decided to punish the girls this particular case reach their decision to impose a punishment in a fair, legal and above-board manner?
4) Were the girls in this case given proper formal notice that officials at/in their school were contemplating taking displinary action against them? Once school officials decided to punish the girls, did they give the girls formal written notice telling them what their punishment would be and how long it would last?
AFAICT, the students who protested did not receive any notice about their punishment whatsoever in any sort of formal, above-board, written way that meets the basic standards of legality under the due process clause of the US Constitution and the relevant state laws of West Virginia.
The girls who protested did not get any written notice informing them that school officials had decided to punish them or were considering punishing them. The girls were given no written or verbal explanation informing them of exactly which rules they violated and what the usual penalities are. The girls were given no information spelling out the details and duration of their punishment.
The decision to punish the girls appears to have been made by school officials acting in an off-the-cuff manner amongst themselves behind closed doors. There was no formal meeting about the matter with recorded notes to check; no disciplinary hearing; no consutation with the schools' attorneys; no letters, emails or other formal notice to the girls and their parents/guardians.
In short, there was no due process.
The bit of text from the lawsuit you yourself have posted here - which you only know about because I courteously gave you a link to it on another thread - makes this clear.
The text says that the Lincoln Middle School principal merely told one of the girls' parents in a private convo over the telephone that the girls' would not be permitted to compete in the upcoming meet.
Another parent was told by the girls' coach - again in a private convo over the phone - that "the minor student athletes would not be permitted to compete because it was her job “to score points for the track team'..." The lawsut alleges that in doing so, the coach was "directly correlating the minor student athletes’ protest and subsequent appearance at a press conference to the decision to ban them from competition."
For anyone interested, here's the court filing that JAHJ and I are citing:
For clarity, I'm voting blue up and down my ballot in November. Punishing those athletes for protesting is utter nonsense. And their "protest" was simply them not throwing. They walked into the ring and quietly, peacefully walked out. How is it now the right of one athlete becomes larger than the rights of these 5 girls? This is twisted. Nobody is preventing trans athletes from competing in sport. They have every opportunity to do so in the boy/male division. Male athletes identifying a female have a significant physical advantage. And if you are going to be willfully ignorant to this fact then whatever you offer as a counter-argument carries zero weight.
Imagine having this brain ^
“I dislike boys competing in girls sports but I will vote to continue it.”
Imagine having a brain that thinks this trans stuff is more important than a treasonous ex-president trying to regain his office and promising revenge on everyone his sad little brain thinks has wronged him.
20. Following their protest, the minor student athletes did not receive any notice that further action would be taken against them for protesting and forfeiting.
21. During practice the following week, however, the five student athletes who participated in the protest were instructed to run “Indian sprints” by coach Dawn Riestenberg.
22. On April 24, 2024, the minor student athletes attended a press conference with public figures, including Riley Gaines, a national advocate for equality and fairness in women’s sports, statewide officeholders Attorney General Patrick Morrisey and Auditor J.B. McCuskey, and several Republican members of the State Senate and House of Delegates, addressing their protests.
23. The following day, on April 25, 2024, at approximately 4:30 p.m., Plaintiff Mitchell Scott Guthrie spoke with Lincoln Middle School principal Lori Scott, who informed Mr. Guthrie that the student athletes who engaged in the protest, including his daughter, would not be permitted to compete in a scheduled track and field meet on April 27, 2024.
the bolded parts are misleading. the rest of the part you quoted, they came back to practice, they got extra running and told they were out of the next meet. your implication seems to be if the coach doesn't immediately hand the parents a typed up letter at the meet or say right there, you're out, then they can't bench you or take any action the following week.
if they did it immediately, we'd probably then hear how this was a rash unconsidered decision.
boring word games. the coach finished out the meet that day. then said her piece when they were back to school on monday. on most rational planets that's tellng you where you stand.
and then ironically it sounds like the benching may not have stuck.
20. Following their protest, the minor student athletes did not receive any notice that further action would be taken against them for protesting and forfeiting.
21. During practice the following week, however, the five student athletes who participated in the protest were instructed to run “Indian sprints” by coach Dawn Riestenberg.
22. On April 24, 2024, the minor student athletes attended a press conference with public figures, including Riley Gaines, a national advocate for equality and fairness in women’s sports, statewide officeholders Attorney General Patrick Morrisey and Auditor J.B. McCuskey, and several Republican members of the State Senate and House of Delegates, addressing their protests.
23. The following day, on April 25, 2024, at approximately 4:30 p.m., Plaintiff Mitchell Scott Guthrie spoke with Lincoln Middle School principal Lori Scott, who informed Mr. Guthrie that the student athletes who engaged in the protest, including his daughter, would not be permitted to compete in a scheduled track and field meet on April 27, 2024.
But you're missing the point. The main issues in this case aren't what the punishment consists of or how long the punishment lasts. The main issues in this case are:
1) Is it legal for the school/school board to punish the girls in this case at all?
2) Is it within the purview of officials at Lincoln Middle School and on the local school board to take discipinary action against student-athletes for engaging in a peaceful protest at an interscholastic sports event? Or is this the sort of matter that's under jurisdictin of the West VIriginia authorites who regulated interscholastic sports?
3) If it is legal for middle school officials and local school board to punish the girls, did various officials who decided to punish the girls this particular case reach their decision to impose a punishment in a fair, legal and above-board manner?
4) Were the girls in this case given proper formal notice that officials at/in their school were contemplating taking displinary action against them? Once school officials decided to punish the girls, did they give the girls formal written notice telling them what their punishment would be and how long it would last?
AFAICT, the students who protested did not receive any notice about their punishment whatsoever in any sort of formal, above-board, written way that meets the basic standards of legality under the due process clause of the US Constitution and the relevant state laws of West Virginia.
The girls who protested did not get any written notice informing them that school officials had decided to punish them or were considering punishing them. The girls were given no written or verbal explanation informing them of exactly which rules they violated and what the usual penalities are. The girls were given no information spelling out the details and duration of their punishment.
The decision to punish the girls appears to have been made by school officials acting in an off-the-cuff manner amongst themselves behind closed doors. There was no formal meeting about the matter with recorded notes to check; no disciplinary hearing; no consutation with the schools' attorneys; no letters, emails or other formal notice to the girls and their parents/guardians.
In short, there was no due process.
The bit of text from the lawsuit you yourself have posted here - which you only know about because I courteously gave you a link to it on another thread - makes this clear.
The text says that the Lincoln Middle School principal merely told one of the girls' parents in a private convo over the telephone that the girls' would not be permitted to compete in the upcoming meet.
Another parent was told by the girls' coach - again in a private convo over the phone - that "the minor student athletes would not be permitted to compete because it was her job “to score points for the track team'..." The lawsut alleges that in doing so, the coach was "directly correlating the minor student athletes’ protest and subsequent appearance at a press conference to the decision to ban them from competition."
For anyone interested, here's the court filing that JAHJ and I are citing:
the coach said she was going to bench the athletes. i expect there are zero rules at all saying the coach has anything other than full authority/power to handle their team as they see fit. zero rules saying parents can make their kids start the meet/game that week or use the courts to thwart being benched. are you kidding me.
this was not a suspension by some governing body. pounding away on what you think the rules are if the children were suspended by the state or school district has nothing to do with this. it is not the "main issue." it's a "counterfactual."
So let me get this straight: you think it is probably ok to harass 13 year olds? And if they are almost 14 it is definitely ok?
And yes they disrupted the track meet with their selfish behavior. If they didn’t want to compete, they could have stayed home.
They wanted to compete with girls, not boys.
and the coach's point, presumably, was we have a meet with 24 girls. 19 of whom made throws. several of whom got points for their teams. additional trans athlete or not.
and while you may think your point sounds semi-clever, it's "politics." the "legality" of the situation is -- until some other court changes the ruling -- trans athlete competes. those are the "rules." just like running out of your lane is a DQ. you can protest that decision but it's protesting the ground rules under which the meet is running.
and the coach's point, presumably, was we have a meet with 24 girls. 19 of whom made throws. several of whom got points for their teams. additional trans athlete or not.
and while you may think your point sounds semi-clever, it's "politics." the "legality" of the situation is -- until some other court changes the ruling -- trans athlete competes. those are the "rules." just like running out of your lane is a DQ. you can protest that decision but it's protesting the ground rules under which the meet is running.
So the ground rules were that boys can compete against girls? Or whatever the competitor claims to identify as?
First question, how do I set blocks for hooves? Asking for a friend.
Furthermore, my post was clever... and so is this one.
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