He doesn't run in college. He decided junior year that he would finish out senior year and hang it up. He also was a very low mileage kid doing the bare minimum. He ran 4:18/9:17 junior year and got very little interest from coaches which turned him off. Some D3 coaches were excited to talk to him but nearly no D1 coaches responded to his requests.
Do you think that he may have had more interest from D1 coaches if he ran 9:02 as a junior (with supershoes) rather than 9:17?
That being said, even though super spikes were “available” in 2021. The odds of you getting a pair for your son in April 2021 were probably very low (possible, but unlikely)
My high school has a freshman who just ran a 9:03.9 2-mile saturday in Alabama (and he lead the entire way). We are from Florida, so we know Marcelo, who ran 8:50 at Arcadia (in fact, these two went 2-4 at the state XC meet behind Patrick Koon). Have any freshman ever run faster than these two??
60 years ago, Jim Ryun and Gerry Lindgren (who had just finished their Junior and Senior years of high school respectively) made the Olympic team.
That’s right, Bro. The peak was when three high schoolers went under 4 in the mile and another high schooler ran a 13:44 5K with the low quality of tracks and shoes they had in the 1960s.
60 years ago, Jim Ryun and Gerry Lindgren (who had just finished their Junior and Senior years of high school respectively) made the Olympic team.
That’s right, Bro. The peak was when three high schoolers went under 4 in the mile and another high schooler ran a 13:44 5K with the low quality of tracks and shoes they had in the 1960s.
For some additional perspective, 60 years before Ryun and Lindgren, Walter George held the World Record for the Mile and Alfred Shrubb held the 5000 record.
Everyone keeps bringing up the spikes (by which I assume people mean the track dragonflies, not the cross country ones), but when I look them up, it says they don't have carbon fiber plates in them. Am I looking at the wrong shoe?
In the 80s, I knew a friend in high school who was on steroids for track & field and football. The recovery was amazing so that was the advantage - recovery despite crazy work out then recovered by next day for yet another crazy work out. Muscle growth wasn't that massive as the diet wasn't formulated for mass but speed and endurance. The steroid was from the black market so it wasn't consistent. Now that testorestone replacement therapy is legal, it's not crazy to think of the dad giving to their freshmen/sophmore sons for recovery.
At Arcadia, Herriman had 3 runners under 9 minutes and another 3 under 9.12, with one more at 9.20. American Fork had 2 under 8.46 and a third at 8.58. And a 9th grader from Belen Jesuit ran 8.50. And finished 28th! There were a total of 69 boys under 9 minutes. Jesus.
Without the necessary talent, neither coaching, or the little things, will allow a kid to run sub-8:50. I believe the emergence of middle school XC and track, is attracting more of the most talented kids to our sport.
I find that really hard to believe. The upperclassmen now would've been in middle school around 2016-2020. Did middle school XC and track get substantially better in that time? Particularly compared to 2013-2015? Because my argument is that the difference in depth between Arcadia 2024, 2023, and 2022, is primarily due to more kids taking training seriously than they did a few years ago, and more of them are getting better training. It's definitely possible that middle schoolers are getting better training too, but I don't know how that would correlate to more of the most talented kids joining the sport.
I assume that 100% of the kids in the invitation 3200 were wearing the super spikes. I assume that it was not the case in 2021.
Think of it this way.
Not only are the super spikes more prevalent now, but the kids today have been able to train in them since 2021. One of the main benefits conferred by these shoes is not the performance on race day but the training loads that precede those performances. If these kids have been benefitting from ~3 years of advanced workloads due to the spikes, it's going to show up in races.
Before, these kids would have gotten injured or burned out from the workloads and intensities they can sustain with super spikes.
I 100 percent agree with you I personally know a very good runner who was seen getting injected before a race. Not all these kids are doing it but many are. I speak from personal experience of ones I have seen cheat. Everyone will downvote but you are spot on. I hope Ben Jaster is not doping but his progression is not human, and the fact that Daniel Simmons does so well while eating nothing and being vegan is wild.
We are not at the peak as these numbers will go up. Last year there was 42. The year before there was 32. Arcadia is the place to run fast and some people on here has blasted that notion as they are enamored with their local/traditional east coast invites. The winds die down after the sun goes down, it's around 60 degrees and there is a choo choo train of athletes wanting to run fast and the field of national talent is only growing bigger and bigger every year. You wanna break nine and are in the "could" category....remedy that with a plane ticket to Burbank or Ontario as they are easy to get in and out of airports. I remember years ago and I forget which local coach said Rich Gonzalez should offer a Distance Carnvial option/night as well. Rich Gonzalez does so much for the sport so I don't think anyone wants to pile additional work on him. I mean 37 boys broke 9 in one race. Azuza Pacific is right up highway 210 a few miles. Two meets going on at one time?
i know that the supershoes of this generation increased the average times from before the last few years, but what are they doing these days to increase their performances? copying jakob workouts?
I 100 percent agree with you I personally know a very good runner who was seen getting injected before a race. Not all these kids are doing it but many are. I speak from personal experience of ones I have seen cheat. Everyone will downvote but you are spot on. I hope Ben Jaster is not doping but his progression is not human, and the fact that Daniel Simmons does so well while eating nothing and being vegan is wild.
What helps Ben Jaster do so well is that he has a luxury of having an awesome teammate Simmons to practice and do workouts with
Not the peak, part of the progression, the ascension of high school distance running. It will only continue to improve as far as times and depth of talent for both men and women.
Everyone keeps bringing up the spikes (by which I assume people mean the track dragonflies, not the cross country ones), but when I look them up, it says they don't have carbon fiber plates in them. Am I looking at the wrong shoe?
Nike Dragonfly spikes have a plastic plate, not carbon fiber. The Zoom Victory spikes do have carbon fiber in them. The previous generation Victory Elite spikes had a carbon fiber plate. There is absolutely nothing outside of Nike's marketing to indicate they possess a distinct advantage over previous track spikes.
The road shoes (Vaporfly) are a different story, and there are a good number of fairly well-designed scientific studies indicating they have a legitimate performance benefit.