Buzz off loser. Giving credit where it's due to any athlete that has never been linked with doping.
Not to mention he is accusing a nursing mother of doping. The view from the gutter is always dirty!
1) I am not accusing her of doping but I am saying it is probable.
2) People said “oh you are accusing a cancer victim” of doping regarding Lance.
3)I admit I am not someone who knows about ESP’s breastfeeding situation, but you know she is breastfeeding her baby because you are there or how exactly?
4) She seems like a great person, but that means little regarding the subject of doping.
Yep, as I’m sure you know it’s exactly 13. 4 of them, including the top 3, did it at the 1993 Chinese national championships (“Ma’s Army”). One is Niyonsaba, a DSD athlete, at 8:19. The fastest non-Chinese time is Dibaba’s 8:16.60. So 8:20 seems pretty fast to me.
Well 8:20 is 8:20. This reminds me of when you, maybe to your credit, have taken the opposite stance regarding the men. You seem to not be overly impressed with a 7:25 3000m (at least seeming to believe that about half a dozen runners currently can do it), even though only 4 men have broken 7:25 outdoors, and 4 indoors, because the race was not really contested that much nor perhaps with the fervor of the 5000m, for example. Yet you are quite impressed with an 8:20, even though 8:24xx for 3000m is the pace of the women’s 5000m world record. So in that sense it does not seem fast.
Why are you comparing ESP’s time in a championship race to a world record achieved with the aid of pacing lights? That’s comparing apples to oranges. Compare her time to other championship races. Championship record speaks for itself.
The OP didn’t claim it was one of the best distance performances in the world all time. The OP asserted it’s one of the best American distance performances of all time. The OP is correct.
Even if this was just a 1:1 race with Tsegay, beating her the way ESP did would be enough to rank as one of the best American distance performances of all time. Tsegay has run 8:17 this year and was clearly going for the win.
But ESP didn’t just beat Tsegay. She beat the steeplechase world record holder, she beat Hailu (2022 world indoor champ) Meshesa (who’s run 3:56 this year), Muir (who broke the European record while winning the Millrose 2-mile this year), Hull (who ran an Australian record to win the New Balance Grand Prix this year), and other strong runners.
It was a fantastic performance that’s absolutely worth the praise it’s receiving.
You place this higher than Mary Decker, 1983 World Championships winning 1500m & 3000m?
As the posters title states “is one of the best”…
Obviously better. Kenyan and Ethiopian women were hardly on the map back in 1983...and East Africans had not immigrated to European and Middle Eastern countries to be their top distance runners.
Obviously better. Kenyan and Ethiopian women were hardly on the map back in 1983...and East Africans had not immigrated to European and Middle Eastern countries to be their top distance runners.
Why are you comparing ESP’s time in a championship race to a world record achieved with the aid of pacing lights? That’s comparing apples to oranges. Compare her time to other championship races. Championship record speaks for itself.
The OP didn’t claim it was one of the best distance performances in the world all time. The OP asserted it’s one of the best American distance performances of all time. The OP is correct.
Even if this was just a 1:1 race with Tsegay, beating her the way ESP did would be enough to rank as one of the best American distance performances of all time. Tsegay has run 8:17 this year and was clearly going for the win.
But ESP didn’t just beat Tsegay. She beat the steeplechase world record holder, she beat Hailu (2022 world indoor champ) Meshesa (who’s run 3:56 this year), Muir (who broke the European record while winning the Millrose 2-mile this year), Hull (who ran an Australian record to win the New Balance Grand Prix this year), and other strong runners.
It was a fantastic performance that’s absolutely worth the praise it’s receiving.
I don't care if it was indoors in an off-distance event against a theoretically weaker field. First off, #3 athlete all time and #4 time ever in the event, American record and Championship record. Beat multi-time world champ and multi-time world record holder in Tsegay. Beat Chepkoech, who has some records and wins of her own. Beat probably the best non-African 1500 runner ever in Laura Muir. Beat Jess Hull, who is the best Australian distance runner ever. Outkicked a handful of insanely good kickers. Perfect strategy from start to finish and unbelievable kick. All done a year after giving birth.
I put this up there with performances like Coburn/Frerichs steeplechase 1-2, Jenny Simpson 1500 win, Joanie marathon win, Billy Mills 10k win, Centro 1500 win, Lagat 1500/5000 double. What a performance. An absolute clinic in how to win a championship race.
I downvoted you because 8:20 is just not that fast anymore when it is not much faster than 5000m world record pace. And the field was not strong, at least not in great form. So overall you engaged in hyperbole.
I'm about to say something which involves no hyperbole whatsoever:
I downvoted you because 8:20 is just not that fast anymore when it is not much faster than 5000m world record pace. And the field was not strong, at least not in great form. So overall you engaged in hyperbole.
I'm about to say something which involves no hyperbole whatsoever:
You're an idiot.
He is smarter than you. We know that. 8:20 is not much faster than 5000m world record pace. Elle would arguably have struggled to pace the 5000m world record race for 3000m. So humble yourself fool.
I will when I have time. At least 2 can run 8:10 or faster. It is amazing how little you people know about this sort of thing. You apparently don’t understand the sport. 8:20 is not fast.
On behalf of the LRC community, I respectfully request that you register your name.
Morons like you need to be *ignored*. You need to have the decency to facilitate that process.
I will when I have time. At least 2 can run 8:10 or faster. It is amazing how little you people know about this sort of thing. You apparently don’t understand the sport. 8:20 is not fast.
On behalf of the LRC community, I respectfully request that you register your name.
Morons like you need to be *ignored*. You need to have the decency to facilitate that process.
Why should he register? Who the hell is sp2? You seem to know very little.
I don't care if it was indoors in an off-distance event against a theoretically weaker field. First off, #3 athlete all time and #4 time ever in the event, American record and Championship record. Beat multi-time world champ and multi-time world record holder in Tsegay. Beat Chepkoech, who has some records and wins of her own. Beat probably the best non-African 1500 runner ever in Laura Muir. Beat Jess Hull, who is the best Australian distance runner ever. Outkicked a handful of insanely good kickers. Perfect strategy from start to finish and unbelievable kick. All done a year after giving birth.
I put this up there with performances like Coburn/Frerichs steeplechase 1-2, Jenny Simpson 1500 win, Joanie marathon win, Billy Mills 10k win, Centro 1500 win, Lagat 1500/5000 double. What a performance. An absolute clinic in how to win a championship race.
I downvoted you because 8:20 is just not that fast anymore when it is not much faster than 5000m world record pace. And the field was not strong, at least not in great form. So overall you engaged in hyperbole.
8:20 for an indoor 3000m is the 3rd fastest athlete of ALL TIME i.e. ever. How is that just not that fast any more?
It's a pity the discussion here segued so quickly (for the most part) from the thread title. By any objective measure, St. Pierre's inspiring performance should be up for consideration as one of the best American distance performances of all time.
Kcje, while your topical knowledge is impressive, you should have launched your own thread if your objective was to compare (and denigrate) St. Pierre's performance in global historical terms, by merely absolute time. Meanwhile, you'll always garner more sympathy for your arguments if you can leave out the sophomoric insults.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Reason provided:
To provide more accuracy to comment.
I’ve never met her but I believe ESPs performance is 100% clean. She’s a nursing mother for god sake and grew up working harder than 99.9999% of any of us. From early on, she’s shown talent and had the ability to make herself suffer for better performances. She also has an excellent coach and a good support system.
I’ve never met her but I believe ESPs performance is 100% clean. She’s a nursing mother for god sake and grew up working harder than 99.9999% of any of us. From early on, she’s shown talent and had the ability to make herself suffer for better performances. She also has an excellent coach and a good support system.
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