Assistance selecting a women's college program.

Doubting run-recruit accuracy is probably a good call, when you get farther into the process you can do deeper dives into specific programs using their website roster and TFRRS.

Lots of great options in california both public and private. question becomes with running can she get roster spots at those schools. Full tuition room and board at UCs is still 40k. other D3 private schools in the SCIAC will also be more likely to offer academic scholarships and potentially cheaper than UCs (Oxy/Laverne/Redlands/Chapman/Whittier). D2s as well. Not as much "prestige" but can get a better deal at those schools if you're a good student and get a good education in a small school environment, depending on what you want to study.

People can be clueless all they want about eating stuff but reality is research suggests 30-60% of female distance runners under-fuel. Not every program has deeply rooted cultural problems around eating, but every college team likely has women who struggle at some point or another with insecurity around food/body image. Managing these issues is part of a coach's job, and if they can't answer questions about it in a professional/appropriate/competent manner than they aren't equipped to set the right tone and culture in the team. As you said, habits of athletes on the team rub off on each other.

Answer: No matter how wealthy you are, you are still eligible for merit aid and athletic scholarships.

Merit aid: most of the top schools offer little to no merit aid, putting all their academic money into need based financial aid. The top 20 or so schools now offer 'no- loan' packages, where the whole financial aid package is scholarships and grants.

Some schools do, however, have a small amount of merit aid, often stipulated by a donor.

Many state schools have plenty of merit aid, often linked to their honors colleges and kids who win national merit awards.

At each school, you should ask coaches and school's fin aid department about merit aid.

Athletic aid: wealthy parents dream as when available, it's totally linked to sports. The northeastern elite love the athletic scholarships for squash, crew, tennis, lacrosse, gymnastics, ice hockey etc., as then they can save the sticker price of undergrad, or use it for grad school, house etc. Recruited athletes also can have lower test scores and grades than usual standard.

Coach's support: at schools with no athletic scholarships, Ivies d3 etc, recruited athletes still get a break on entrance requirements. The elite love this too, as their b student 1200 sat child can still get into a top school even if they have to pay full price.

Your daughter, as an A student w 1400 Sat will be able to get in anywhere (except MIT) with Coach's support.

Lastly, there are also plenty of 3rd party national and local scholarships available. Elks Foundation, Evans Scholars, local Rotary Club etc. Your guidance counselor and your own research can find these.

This is another point to ask about.

The d1 elite programs do offer tutors, study halls, relationships w profs to allow for travel/rescheduling of exams etc. An excellent student at a D1 is a real treasure for the support departments, since that kid helps to improve the gpa for all athletes and their team. Great to bring out for pr events.

In general the d3 s and the Ivies pride themselves on just throwing the athletes in with the general population, so kids with labs and tough majors have to solve scheduling problems on their own.

With the right parental guidance lol and a mature, responsible, motivated student athlete, the "do it yourself" model often works out pretty well.

You can also check on this when you do visits, but where amazing money and support is available at the nescacs, is supporting research projects and travel for students. If you want to study clams in the Caribbean, impending doom of Taiwan, or Proust's memoirs in Paris, put your project together, get a faculty sponsor and off you go.

There are also tutors, math support center, suicide counselor lol available to all students, not just athletes.

Similarly, to your food point, at D1 you may get training table and massage, while D3 offers the general meal plan and a pat on the back.

do less, seriously

and all your detailed bolded bullet pointed responses are giving me the ick too

you aren't the main character

Point taken thank you. Apart from starting this thread I have not done anything other than look at a few Websites, and I don't plan to be making the phone calls.

This thread has far exceeded my expectations and I have learned a huge amount so a big thank you to the running community, the conversation should help others too.

I have a different perspective on this. I ran at an Ivy and had one daughter at an Ivy and one at Carleton. Four years go by quickly and it is unlikely that your talented daughter will pursue running as a career. Coaches come and go. Programs have up and down years. Any of the schools listed in this thread will allow her to join a team, get solid coaching, make friends, enjoy the sport, and keep growing and competing. Have her focus on which school she wants to attend to meet her educational and personal goals outside of running, and choose those schools first. I, for one, had a serious stress fracture at the end of my sophomore year in college and my running didn't end up being the best part of college. She should think about it that way... if she were to stop running, or do a semester abroad (i.e. economics abroad program in London?), or jump into whatever else her school of choice offers... where would she want to go? Attend that school, and join the team. Have your daughter do her own research on this so that she can get excited about what these amazing institutions offer, and how each school is different. Good luck!

Several posters have recommended placing running low in the priority list.

Yes, CMS coach (was a good runner too, although that’s not a requirement for a coach!) is excellent, team is strong every year, and the women’s and men’s team have the same coach (XC and distance) and a good culture.

LennyZ I like your perspective. I have talked to many people whose college careers were cut short with injuries. Also others who had none. She visited an alumna of LSE and took a campus tour last summer. It may be just as important to nurture a fallback passion. I am curious if the poster "bother me" did that with his kids, who are obviously driving very hard in all things as so many of the people mentioned here would have to have been.

This seems to be the overall thing with a D1 vs a D3 elite school. Both can potentially surround you with stimulating people who have worked similarly hard academically to be there. It seems like the odds are higher at a D3 with stringent entry requirements, though there are amazing people everywhere in my experience.

Also if the goal is to be in a school that will nurture "secondary passions" outside of running then being at a NESCAC or quality D3 sounds heavenly, though the price tag and value proposition are questionable if you can DIY these experiences with a bit of creativity.

I have noted Pomona, NESCAC's, CMU, most private colleges, cost similar amounts. If for example University of California schools cost half that (~$40K) then the D3 is hard to justify.

About to respond to another thread to finish this thought.

I'm confused on one point, given how many varied experiences people have posted here. Does everyone who can afford it actually pay the sticker price at the private colleges? "bother me" implies that yes for sure, he's clearly on the ball and it sounds like he did the homework.

Attending a D3 private college where "secondary passions" are nurtured as a student athlete with a reduced tuition (merit, coach support, or whatever) such that the costs is at price parity with an excellent public school like University of California would be great, I am just not clear if that would ever happen. Some say no, others imply yes.

I have been thinking if this information were converted into a Quick-Start Guide there would be two versions: one for parents (who have to pay for the choices) and another for the student athletes (who live through the whole experience).

Also, a tutorial in the workings and powers of the NCAA would be awesome. If you have never paid much attention to college sports in the US then you don't understand the powers of the NCAA and how that shapes the college student athlete experience.

To clarify, NESCAC Guy you explain it fabulously, so thank you. Everyone says D3 doesn't have athletic scholarships. I interpret from what you are saying that some do, and if good enough to be recruited and with coach support one could receive a D3 athletic scholarship of some amount, whether wealthy or not.

I’ve read a lot of the replies and there are too many over-detailed criteria being discussed.

In her situation, use running as an admission advantage when applying to her top choice schools. Coaches submit a list of priority recruits to the Admission Department who often honor those requests.

A 2:23 800m runner doesn’t have a great advantage in admissions so all of the other criteria doesn’t matter.

Go visit some schools, your daughter will develop some preferences, then talk to the coaches. Narrow your list to those that show an interest.

Running will play only a small part in her school choice.

Former D3 runner hopping in here to say: it depends. I did not qualify for financial aid but received merit aid which made college at a small D3 liberal arts school relatively more affordable than other options given what I wanted to study. A lot of my peers had similar circumstances, just depends on the school. In most cases you wont know until you hear back from admissions. Don't get me wrong, I still paid significantly more than my sibling who got similar merit aid went to state school. Yes, D3 colleges do not offer athletic scholarships, but that does not mean that most schools will not work with you to meet your financial aid requirements. Notably, Williams College met 100% of their applicants demonstrated need and recently announced that moving forward their scholarships are grant which do not need to be repaid.

Your daughters SAT score will certainly help her application to most schools, however a lot of schools are putting less weight on standardized test scores (for many reasons I wont get into here). Just some reassurance as a 1400+ SAT will help your application at most schools, and most are now test optional. In most D3 programs, coaches do have some pull with admissions, but there are some outliers which require you to be formally admitted into the school before they officially offer you a roster spot (this is the case at MIT which I think is what NESCAC guy was referencing) - just talk to each coach about what the admission process looks like.

Would definitely emphasize looking at retention and results over time. Are Juniors/Seniors still enjoying their time on the team? Is your daughter interested in anything outside of running? What are those opportunities like at those schools - I was able to balance running with a heavy courseload and a ton of extracurriculars at my school. Would agree that looking at the school first and considering athletics second is the way to go - being sidelined by injuries happens or down the road your daughter could decide the sport is not for her anymore - would she still enjoy her time there if she wasn't running with the team every day? Something else to consider is school investment into the XC/TF program - does that schools athletic department value the team - can sometimes be frustrating with racing opportunity, facilities, travel etc if not. With this in mind, if your daughter is considering the D3 route consider looking into which teams regularly qualify for cross nationals.

Of course, if the option is there, its up to you to decide based on your family and your daughters needs if it makes sense to try and go for a full athletic scholarship at a D1 school. Everyone on this board is going to have different and passionate opinions about whats best for your daughter lol. What is really important is what makes her happy and what is best for your family. I'd recommend reaching out to personal connections who have gone through the process who know your situation a little better than randoms on LetsRun.

Finally, I'd like to emphasize that although this process can be stressful and cause a lot of anxiety, have your daughter just focus on having fun and enjoying the sport. I'm sure she will wind up in a great place regardless of which route she chooses. If not there's always the transfer portal :)

Test optional will make it more difficult for a white girl to be admitted. You are correct about highly selective schools covering demonstrated financial need. The problem is that the school determines the need. The student doesn't determine it. We earn a modest income, much less than friends whose kids went for nearly nothing, but our cost is huge for our daughter due to frugality.

D3 has no athletic scholarships. And they can't give any academic aid to athletes that other students don't receive.