Ha! That was mine exactly. Regarding the Steph vs. Magic debate, Magic was obviously a better floor general, passer and rebounder but Curry forces defenses to make adjustments in a way Magic could not. Just the threat of Curry on the perimeter opens up lanes and no one would take advantage of that better than Jordan. Of course, if you eliminate the 3 point shot and play by the old rules that changes Curry's value completely.
A point on Wilt, we all know the stats but how many here actually saw him play? I watched him at the end of his career with the Lakers but there are only short highlight clips of Wilt in his prime that I have been able to find. You really need to watch entire games to evaluate how good a player really is. So he remains a question mark for me.
Good points.
And same here regarding Wilt. I can't really evaluate him (or Russell, Baylor, Robertson,...).
Having a lot of rings in this modern NBA isn't saying much.
Saying something like this pretty much DQs you from the discussion. These young hoodlums with their mumbly rap and flippity flops…couldn’t hold a candle to the players in MY day.
Actually, winning a lot of rings in the modern era is tougher than ever because there are more teams than prior to the mid-90s, and better parity than ever. There were only 8 teams in the league for Bill Russell’s first 4 championships, and only for the last 2 were there more than 12.
Great teams were built around these great players. Lebron has done the opposite. He’s gone to teams already built. He can never be in the same category as them.
Who's going to play defense on these teams? It will just be 5 guys fighting over who gets to shoot.
This. Making a team is different from combining the best five players. Especially since defense is more about your worst link, while offense is more about your best one. And on offense, the guys you're playing with are so, so good that being a high volume, moderate efficiency scorer isn't going to cut it.
The problem is that most of the very top guys (including Lebron and MJ) fit that description. To succeed on this superteam, what these players really need to do is learn to become role players, which is very much not something the GOATs do on a daily basis. A player like Duncan or Kareem could be an exception. Maybe Chris Paul makes the starting 5 because while he's not one of the best 5 players of all time, he seems to make any team he's on better, and that's the skill needed here.
My best guess is that both MJ and Lebron make the team because they're strong defenders and decent percentage shooters and just so incredible at basketball that they wouldn't cancel each other out too much. But I wouldn't be surprised if the best possible team of all time looked VERY different from a list of the best players.
Agreed with this post, makes a lot of the points I was thinking when reading the first page. The couple things you won’t necessarily get if you just combine the 5 best players are:
- Shooting - need it to space the floor and give room to big men, LeBron/Jordan, etc.
- Defense
- High efficiency scoring - someone like Kobe may not be a good fit with his lower TS % - Passing
What I’d go with is:
- Start with the two best all time: LeBron and MJ. Gives you a lot of scoring, good defense (when LeBron is trying), and good passing from LeBron
- Steph: as others have mentioned his floor spacing is invaluable and gives lot of room to the other players or he hits high percentage 3’s. Also good at distributing the ball, only downside is not a great defender
- KD: very high efficiency scorer and can be a great defender when he tries to be. Gives you a lot of length
- Jokic: high efficiency scoring, great passing, ok enough defense
I’ll admit it feels weird to leave out everyone from the Kareem/Shaq/Duncan group, but I think the lack of shooting and defensive mobility would be difficult in today’s era - whereas the group above thrives in any era
With a collection of elite offensive players, i would say the additional value of uber elite iso skills declines a lot. As such i would value defense, passing, and shooting more highly on this team than on a regular team. So no wilt/shaq (shooting) no bird/magic (defense) no Kobe (passing)
why are all these dum-dums junking up the thread comparing a 39 year old lebron to these other players in their prime? (bc most were either out of the league or barely hanging at 39). i'm not even a lebron fan but i'm not a moron either. last warning
Is the lineup the 5 greatest players? Or 5 best players? Or the best combination of players you think could play the game the best if it had to the defend the earth from destruction by aliens?
The top 5 GOAT team:
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Kareem
Russell.
The top 5 just straight up best players team:
Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Kareem
The team that would play the best basketball possible to defend the earth
Stockton
Jordan
Pippen/Klay Thompson
Duncan
Olajuwon
The above scenario/team is the most fun one to do because it brings into play guys like Pippen and Stockton who won't make GOAT/BOAT teams but in a functioning actual team are invaluable. Lineup justification:
I don't know how anyone scores on this team. The games premier shotblocker in Hakeem paired with another all-time top 10 defensive player in Duncan is impossible to overcome close to the basket. Pippen is the greatest mid-range to perimeter on-ball defender perhaps ever and while those guys cut down passing lanes you have the all time steals leader in Stockton to pick pockets on perimeter.
Offensively the key guys are Dream, Duncan and Jordan with the offense orchestrated by the best pure point ever in Stockton. Pippen was still a peak 20ppg and career 16ppg guy so he can score when needed. The one guy I seriously thought about that could be a totally random add ahead of Pippen? Klay Thompson. Peak Klay was NBA all defensive second team and an massively underrated defender. His ability from long range adds another dimension on offense. In the right team he's honestly more valuable than Curry - as good a spot-up shooter (some think even better than Curry) and not a liability on defense. I know it seems like a crazy pick right now because he's been washed for 3 years but this guy once hit 14 3's in a game and scored 37 in ONE quarter alone.
Actually i was thinking that the fate-of-the -universe team might benefit from Chauncey Billups at point. Very good and flexible defender. Excellent shooter. Good size. Contributes to having a team without weaknesses on offense or defense
Is the lineup the 5 greatest players? Or 5 best players? Or the best combination of players you think could play the game the best if it had to the defend the earth from destruction by aliens?
The top 5 GOAT team:
Magic
Jordan
Bird
Kareem
Russell.
The top 5 just straight up best players team:
Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
Kareem
The team that would play the best basketball possible to defend the earth
Stockton
Jordan
Pippen/Klay Thompson
Duncan
Olajuwon
The above scenario/team is the most fun one to do because it brings into play guys like Pippen and Stockton who won't make GOAT/BOAT teams but in a functioning actual team are invaluable. Lineup justification:
I don't know how anyone scores on this team. The games premier shotblocker in Hakeem paired with another all-time top 10 defensive player in Duncan is impossible to overcome close to the basket. Pippen is the greatest mid-range to perimeter on-ball defender perhaps ever and while those guys cut down passing lanes you have the all time steals leader in Stockton to pick pockets on perimeter.
Offensively the key guys are Dream, Duncan and Jordan with the offense orchestrated by the best pure point ever in Stockton. Pippen was still a peak 20ppg and career 16ppg guy so he can score when needed. The one guy I seriously thought about that could be a totally random add ahead of Pippen? Klay Thompson. Peak Klay was NBA all defensive second team and an massively underrated defender. His ability from long range adds another dimension on offense. In the right team he's honestly more valuable than Curry - as good a spot-up shooter (some think even better than Curry) and not a liability on defense. I know it seems like a crazy pick right now because he's been washed for 3 years but this guy once hit 14 3's in a game and scored 37 in ONE quarter alone.
downvote away!
Any version of advanced stats will tell you Klay Thompson is not/was not an elite defender.
I'd start with a 12 man roster which would be the following. Basing this on who I would want to coach and be on my team, not just the best 12 ever.
G Jordan
G Curry
G Paul
G Wade
G Johnson
F Erving
F Garnett
F Bird
F Duncan
C Jokic
C Robinson
C O'Neal
I'd probably start BIG and go with
Johnson
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
O'Neal
Would quickly bring in Curry/Jokic if the game called for it.
Not a bad group. Except for C Robinson.
C. Robinson of Portland/Phoenix fame??? Good player, but not even in the same time zone as the rest of your picks. Could you have meant D. Robinson (David)?
Presumably you left off Lebron because you find his personality annoying rather than him not being a top 12 player. I can understand that.
C = center. Ehhhhhh...
Anyway, can you imagine Jokić and Curry paired up 🧨
What version of a 5 do you want to go with? What version of the rules? We hand checking or nah? We allowed to play zone? How wide is the lane? How deep is the 3?
There have been too many changes in rules to really compare eras.
Jordan
Magic
Lebron
Duncan
Kareem
As far as impact to the game and their position you could add Wilt, Shaq, Curry, Bird, Mikan, and others.
The 3 players that had the most impact on rule changes in the NCAA and NBA are probably Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq.
The changes to the hand checking rule allowed more dribble drive and kick out to the open 3. That plus the influx of European players means there are a lot more 3s in both the NCAA and NBA. Bird could shoot the three, but if you look at the top 3pt shooters of all time as far as total 3s he is not even close. The mid-range shot is basically dead. The post is basically dead. Everyone wants to either drive or shoot a 3.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.