I agree he should be DQ'd. Any knowledgable coach should know better. The athlete himself should know better. Don't like the rules? Don't play the game! The bigger problem is the rules are not uniformly enforced. There was a thread on LR a few weeks ago about the masters runner at Richmond where the cheating was far more aggressive than this and he was rewarded for his performance. Maybe people will learn a lesson from this
Main lesson to learn from this is if you are an OTQ hopeful, then don't run philly since they will railroad you over an idiotic technicality. The rulebook absolutely gives the officials discretion over whether to issue a disqualification in cases like this and the fact that they didn't use that discretion here is absurd.
Philly is a big city marathon with a strong history and regularly attracts a handful of athletes flirting with an OTQ. I would be really surprised if this wasn’t a carefully considered decision, or if there wasn’t more to the story than “just one bottle”.
It wasn’t McKirdy. I actually reached out because that post came the next day. He said the Philly race coordinators reached out for his advice on how to handle and gave him the evidence and he gave his opinions. He actually helped “talk me off the ledge” because I was in a big depression hole Monday and Tuesday. He said with CIM coming up, he wanted to remind people since that’s the last race of the window
it was 100% McKirdy. His story sounds completely made up to fool you. The Philly race coordinators would not have reached out to a completely unrelated coach for advice, LMAO.
It wasn’t McKirdy. I actually reached out because that post came the next day. He said the Philly race coordinators reached out for his advice on how to handle and gave him the evidence and he gave his opinions. He actually helped “talk me off the ledge” because I was in a big depression hole Monday and Tuesday. He said with CIM coming up, he wanted to remind people since that’s the last race of the window
it was 100% McKirdy. His story sounds completely made up to fool you. The Philly race coordinators would not have reached out to a completely unrelated coach for advice, LMAO.
He's lying to your face, dude.
Also, McKirdy is nowhere near an important-enough dude to justify being the one someone would call for an interpretation. Why would Philly contact a rando in Flagstaff for a rules interpretation?
it was 100% McKirdy. His story sounds completely made up to fool you. The Philly race coordinators would not have reached out to a completely unrelated coach for advice, LMAO.
He's lying to your face, dude.
Also, McKirdy is nowhere near an important-enough dude to justify being the one someone would call for an interpretation. Why would Philly contact a rando in Flagstaff for a rules interpretation?
Even if he's telling the truth (which 100% he's not), his story is that Philly asked him for advice and then DQ'd your guy......meaning he recommended a DQ.
A total classless move from McKirdy to report your athlete, and even worse he is gaslighting you and manipulating you.
Maybe next year you'll go to his micromarathon so he doesn't try to ruin the life of your athletes again. It's like mafia, pay them so they don't burn your business down.
I am actually for these types of rules... In other words if elites get bottles so does your aunt running a 5 hour marathon. Also I think DQs like this only should be held if they are consistently enforced. In other words ask every official if they DQ'd every runner who received any aid from any person on the course that wasn't a volunteer.. the answer for Philly would obviously be no considering no one give a crap about this violation for a mid or back packer in the race. If you as an official cannot check your bias and your scrutiny based on level of athlete you should be removed as an official.
The consistency must be mandated. Did that official stay at that location the entire race and mark every number that violated this? If the official cannot answer that question in a protest the authority of that official and their bias needs to be called into question including this ruling
Nonsense. Elites get their own bottle tables with their own bottles that have been delivered there. Your aunt is lucky to get a 1/5th cup of water pouted a by a volunteer who's gotten bored. Elites get delivered to the start line, don't have to wait for security or bathrooms, and get a technical briefing of the course. They get a bike yelling to watch out for trolley tracks. Elites don't have the same rules.
But regular runners get the volunteers handing them cups of water. It's moronic that elites can't have that as well.
I don't think you understand that I agree with you
The problem I have is that what was Ethan's choice? Ethan didn't ask his coach to hand him the bottle, his coach just did. Should he have just run past and not taken in his nutrition because of the acts of a third party? That seems unfair. It wasn't Ethan who broke the rule, it was his coach who put him in a position of having to take the bottle from his hand as his coach removed it from it's place on then table.
On top of this - lets not forget this is at mile 22 - whatever rules you are aware of at the start of the race, when you are going all out at mile 22 of the marathon you can't even remember your last name if someone asked you.
I'm all out at mile 22 of a marathon and I go for my bottle and someone hands it to me instead... how many people refuse to grab the bottle and run past thinking ' that's not allowed, I'll just have to go the last 4.2 miles without it". Give me a break.
The problem I have is that what was Ethan's choice? Ethan didn't ask his coach to hand him the bottle, his coach just did. Should he have just run past and not taken in his nutrition because of the acts of a third party? That seems unfair. It wasn't Ethan who broke the rule, it was his coach who put him in a position of having to take the bottle from his hand as his coach removed it from it's place on then table.
On top of this - lets not forget this is at mile 22 - whatever rules you are aware of at the start of the race, when you are going all out at mile 22 of the marathon you can't even remember your last name if someone asked you.
I'm all out at mile 22 of a marathon and I go for my bottle and someone hands it to me instead... how many people refuse to grab the bottle and run past thinking ' that's not allowed, I'll just have to go the last 4.2 miles without it". Give me a break.
This.
Way too late to appeal? Would have given it a shot.
Philly is a big city marathon with a strong history and regularly attracts a handful of athletes flirting with an OTQ. I would be really surprised if this wasn’t a carefully considered decision, or if there wasn’t more to the story than “just one bottle”.
More click-bait from Merber. The dude broke a rule, got caught, and got penalized. Happens all the time.
And for anyone resisting the need for this rule, imagine if it didn't exist. We'd have bikers all over every race, handing out bottles and nutrition like this was the Tour de France.
Every HS coach knows you can't aid a runner, and this Philly guy should have known, too.
And the "what about-ism" here gives off Fox News vibes. What Rupp did seven years ago has no bearing on this incident.
It wasn’t McKirdy. I actually reached out because that post came the next day. He said the Philly race coordinators reached out for his advice on how to handle and gave him the evidence and he gave his opinions. He actually helped “talk me off the ledge” because I was in a big depression hole Monday and Tuesday. He said with CIM coming up, he wanted to remind people since that’s the last race of the window
I'm sorry, I think you are being too nice to him. This very much sounds like a McKirdy move. He is a well-known jerk.
Was there a technical meeting the night before with a rules official present? Targeted assistance is usually covered in email to invited athletes as well as in the tech meeting which would have been an opportunity to ask about specifics of what's allowed and not allowed.
Honestly, this feels like something that was done within some hopefully in a gray area of things overlooked. It does sucks that an official did not simply give a warning first, but that is within their discretion. The whole idea whether an official has discretion or not is a whole different discussion, but the bottom line it does occur.
And appeal would have zero chance of winning. The was no dispute about what occurred, the rule infraction made (non-official person aiding a runner in an official aid station), or how the ruling was applied. The responsibilities of knowing the specifics of the rules always falls on the runner.
Sorry this happened to your runner. Kudos to you and Ethan for owning up to it. Not easy at all. These kinds of things happen in all sports time to time - infrequent and seemingly inconsequential actions get overlook but start bubbling up. Ideally USATF would have been more proactive at tech meetings telling athletes 'we are seeing more types of targeted assistance in various forms. Be aware our officials have been made aware to look for and enforce it when seen'
As far as the physical assistance rules go, they require the athlete to receive a warning before a disqualification: "Any athlete giving or receiving assistance during any event other than permitted in Rule 144.4 must be cautioned by the Referee and warned that for any repetition, he or she will be disqualified from that event." The only exceptions to the warning requirement are for pacing infractions and receiving physical assistance that "assists in making forward progress in the race," neither of which happened here. So my question is was he previously warned by an official that his coach handing him a bottle would result in a dq? If not, it seems like the race made a clearly wrong decision.
Was there a tech meeting or tech info sent out? Was there an assigned referee? Was there a jury of appeals? Was the race even USATF sanctioned? Certified? These are all points that are neglected by even some of the biggest races in the country. Athletes are getting screwed all over the country by races that are only concerned with dollars and numbers.
Why doesn't Ethan apply to the Olympic Trials citing his time. Can the OTC waive the requirement for a qualifying time or can he appeal a denial there?
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.