$240,000 to 4 clubs???????

You say that "Glenn Latimer and Jim Estes definetly DO NOT have their thumb on the pulse of distance running in this country, nor do they know shit about development." and then say

"Congratulations to Mary Wittenburg and the NYRRC for using all their cards. Well played and everyone benefits from the game."

If it wasnt for Jim and USATF, all of the money wouldve been split between two clubs. Who do you think got them thinking differently?

unreasonable,

You said that their are better clubs out there? Who is better? Lets look at that for a second.

AS far as I can see Hansons is the next best, but none of them are packing bags for Worlds. People from Mammoth, Minnesota, Boulder and Big Sur are.

So who are the better clubs?

Even if NYRR's return on the investment has no money involved, on its deathbed the organization will receive total enlightenment.

Is the SENSE guy correct that potential NYCM headliners train with the groups that received the money? Who are the big name athletes who will benefit from this cash? If he's correct, this is a savvy business move. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Mr. Marathon's claim of this influencing the Trials decision is a good point, as well. Giving a quarter of a million dollars away to aspiring distance runners buys a hell of a lot of good will.

There is no downside in this for anyone.

(Except the 25 minute 5k runners in New York metro who pay $30 per race to subsidize this whole endeavor. But even they are getting to buy their way into the marathon by doing 9 of those races.)

reasonable in deed, I guess you have to ask what makes a club? Do 3 runners training together by the same coach qualify? I guess I should start a club with my dad and little brother...

reasonable in deed. wrote:

unreasonable,

You said that their are better clubs out there? Who is better? Lets look at that for a second.

AS far as I can see Hansons is the next best, but none of them are packing bags for Worlds. People from Mammoth, Minnesota, Boulder and Big Sur are.

So who are the better clubs?

Hansons Program is about creating marathoners. I know that they stick their noses into other events, but for them it is all about the marathon. The interesting thing is that the NYRR are all about the New York Marathon. I know that they stick their noses into other events but for them the Marathon is focus #1. In other words Hansons is the most like the NYRR.

Who are the better clubs then?

There are a few clubs that are making the few runners they have run great and there are many that have big numbers that might have a runner or two make it out of that group. Team Minnesota is doing a great job in all areas of track, road and cross. They are doing the best overall job throughout the year.

If you want to talk about marathon groups, it appears that there are now two groups that are rivaling Hanson's in term of time quality and improvement. Jim J. and Josh O. train together in Columbus, both ran under 2:16 this past weekend, actually running 2:14 and 2:15. Up in the Northeast, two guys that train in the same group also ran sub 2:16. These guys doing it on their own, away from big sponsorship, would be 4 - 8 on the all time Hanson's marathon time list. Time will tell how these guys continue to run, but purely by a time basis, they are just as successful as the Hanson's if not more, based off of the runners backrounds.

Team XO and Hanson's have a lot of numbers and get a standout or two out of them. The other big programs like Big Sur/Team Minn/Team USA/Boulder have few runners but most turn into standouts.

Which is better? Both are good and doing different things to improve distance running in the US.

Just for the record, saying the Hanson's program is about creating marathoners is a cop out and shouldn't be used. They care a lot about cross country, enough to make it a specific training block for part of their team and to send some to Europe to compete. They also train hard for the track season. They just do a better job of training for the marathon.

Maybe it is better for some to get a 30 hour job outside of running. Running two times per day without any other ambitions seems like a great way for burn out for some (ritz).

...so at least the NYRR's got that going for it...which is nice....

The "9-race" crowd isn't supporting the program, it's the "less than 9 races but more than $2500" set. There will probably never be a shortage of these people.

Footnote: For non-NYC-area observers, it may be helpful to know the 9-race guarantee was set up -- and rightly so, in my opinion -- as response to the former situation whereby hundreds of the runners most dedicated to the NYRR races (and you know who the "Central Park Fixtures" are) frequently were shut out of the marathon b/c they didn't win in the lottery.

USA Distance Project Fan wrote:

Kudos to USATF for organizing this effort and additional kudos to the NYRR and Twin Cities (who was the first event to contribute $$$$) for seeing the vision of supporting the athletes and coaches outside of prize money.

I think the NYRR and Twin Cities would have been better off to keep the funds and use it for grass root regional

events and programs - that is where running and track and field have a chance to rise somewhere on the totem pole above snowboarding and Olympic bobsled.

Established clubs could have written for grants to support x-country and track meets for all ages in various regions.

or, I would give all the funds to the sprinters - world class, and plenty of them.

some things never change.

Any true club is better than the Boulder "club". The good thing is that Boulder will have to learn a small lesson in accountability. You can't just piss away all the funds without purpose; i'm sure they'll try pretty hard though...

Or they may have spent the past six months learning from other clubs, researching business models, putting together a support team, ...hmmm you may just have to wait and see now won't you. "All who wander are not lost..."

Team XO also has a huge group of field event athletes that make some big waves, just look at the us indoor entries.

Every model of team is needed, in my opinion. They each serve a different niche and comparing them is like apples and oranges.

Splitting the money up 15 ways may have been the best approach.

Atwater wrote:

That is currently the system of the Shoe companies. Nike gives Ritz a contract but he doesn't allow that money to filter to the coach. This is a system set up to pay a coach. Meb and Deena don't see a cent. Their coaches do.

I'm always amazed that athletes see coaching as an entitlement and very few actually pay their coaches monthly fees, despite making a good living themselves. Does Alan Webb pay Scott Raczko? Does Meb pay Bob Larsen? Does Deena pay Terrence Mahon? Shouldn't they? What's a more important service for an athlete than coaching?

Vanny

No purpose?!It will be used to buy a quadruple grande latte, then it will be pissed away.

Sad but True wrote:

Any true club is better than the Boulder "club". The good thing is that Boulder will have to learn a small lesson in accountability. You can't just piss away all the funds without purpose; i'm sure they'll try pretty hard though...

Vanny wrote:

I'm always amazed that athletes see coaching as an entitlement and very few actually pay their coaches monthly fees, despite making a good living themselves. Does Alan Webb pay Scott Raczko? Does Meb pay Bob Larsen? Does Deena pay Terrence Mahon? Shouldn't they? What's a more important service for an athlete than coaching?

Vanny

Deena and Meb have put their name on Team California and that pays for their coaches.

Oh..."researching business models"..."support teams"...etc. but can you follow through with your half-baked, self-absorbed plans...hmmm. If history tells any tale...it tells disaster for you and your so called group. good luck, though. USATF is counting on you.

what the hell? wrote:

"

If it wasnt for Jim and USATF, all of the money wouldve been split between two clubs. Who do you think got them thinking differently?

A bold and courageous move indeed! Pure rocket science. where have these two been over the past twenty years while track and field in this country has gone to the dogs! We are so lucky to have their services now. The dynamic duo. superman, batman, the fantastic four all rolled up in one.

Please be realistic when making future comments. approaching the big races for support for the development clubs has been around for over a decade. There have been a number of proposals over the past 5 years for support of any number of clubs from within USATF and in conjunction with major races. Look at the original objectives of running USA. Estes and Latimer did nothing here with the possible exception of posing for a few pictures and eating a few free meals.

Rainbow Room,

What the hell are you talking about? When have major events put up this much cash to support an effort like this? The fact is that they havent.

Bringing Running USA into the mix isnt even close to being relevant. The truth is that no matter what USATF does to improve the sport that we all get so much out of, people are always going to criticize it. It is just retarded.