Sure they’re doping, and so are the top Americans. If you took the PEDS out of the equation, the Kenyans would still be faster. Though times across the board at the elite level would be slower.
Better controls in track equated to an American, Fisher, being faster than any Kenyan. Put proper controls in marathoning, the Kenyans would be running 2:07s. Same as Mantz
Faster in what? 3000m? In 5000m, he is slower than Kenyans Krop and Kipkorir.
why would a runner use a beta-blocker as a PED? You need the jitters
I wonder where that is coming from. He was banned for using terbutaline, according to WebMD: "used to treat wheezing and shortness of breath from lung problems".
As for "negligence" - that was postulated by the athlete but rejected by the AIU and finally the DT.
96. Thus, the Athlete’s conduct also falls short of the expected standard of behaviour for an athlete in his position and fails to establish that he bore No Significant Fault or Negligence. In light of the foregoing, and considering the absence of any circumstances that would mitigate the degree of fault or negligence attributable to the Athlete, the Sole Arbitrator concludes that the period of Ineligibility to be imposed in the matter at hand must be two years.
In the end, he got the standard 2 years for a "specified substance" because the AU "did not contend that the Violations were intentional".
Better controls in track equated to an American, Fisher, being faster than any Kenyan. Put proper controls in marathoning, the Kenyans would be running 2:07s. Same as Mantz
Does doping give you 7 minutes in the marathon? That sounds excessive.
As for Fisher, somehow USADA doesn't have him high on their priority list. This year they tested him only 4 times so far, less than half as much as banned Houlihan (9 times) and 1/3 of injured Jager (13 times) from the same team. Paul Chelimo is currently the leader with 17 times.
That explains why you can never see the wood for the trees. The details are simply part of the bigger picture, which according to Kiptum's coach is that doping is everywhere in Kenya.
That explains why you don't know what trees look like. Note that Kiptum's coach does not say doping unnaturally enhanced the performance of any Kenyans.
I do not ever doubt that "presence" and "use" can be found "everywhere", and not only in Kenya, but worldwide, with a few exceptions, like Japan.
I only ask for evidence of unnatural distance running performances enabled by doping. For some reason, this frightens you to the core of your personal insecurity. I'll spot you the Chinese women, and the Russian women on steroids.
Of course - "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - but it doesn't enhance anyone's performance. That's why it's everywhere. They take it because it doesn't help them.
And despite the pic above, steroids only work on certain women.
'Roids certainly make a difference. Except to rekrunner.
Typical dishonesty. I don't ever express doubts about "'Roids" for sprinters.
And Russian women md runners. But no one else appears to benefit from 'roids. And certainly there's no form of doping that will help Kenyan altitude-trained distance runners - even though they are amongst the biggest offenders.
Of course - "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - but it doesn't enhance anyone's performance. That's why it's everywhere. They take it because it doesn't help them.
And despite the pic above, steroids only work on certain women.
You can settle this quickly -- which of your false authorities says what you say -- that presence is synonymous with performance? Howman? Sage? Surely not WADA. WADA bans some, but not all, substances on a "potential" to enhance performance.
The effect on steroids for women was established before 1960. Feel free to provide any substantial evidence of steroids working for men and/or in the distance events. Maybe you can appeal again to your false authorities to see if they say the same thing.
Of course - "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - but it doesn't enhance anyone's performance. That's why it's everywhere. They take it because it doesn't help them.
And despite the pic above, steroids only work on certain women.
You can settle this quickly -- which of your false authorities says what you say -- that presence is synonymous with performance? Howman? Sage? Surely not WADA. WADA bans some, but not all, substances on a "potential" to enhance performance.
The effect on steroids for women was established before 1960. Feel free to provide any substantial evidence of steroids working for men and/or in the distance events. Maybe you can appeal again to your false authorities to see if they say the same thing.
Yawn. "Doping doesn't improve performance", yet innumerable athletes dope - including distance runners. The evidence that doping does what athletes hope it does - and WADA also knows - is comprehensive and longstanding; the practice has been part of sport for decades. Various sources have often been referred to here over the years but you still remain the doping equivalent of a flat-earther. I won't waste my time wandering down your rabbit-hole to try to persuade you out of the contradiction, that you believe doping doesn't improve performance yet athletes continue to dope in every sport (including distance and marathon running). Either they are unbelievably stupid - or you are.
This post was edited 49 seconds after it was posted.
To the point - why do so many Kenyan distance runners (including marathon runners) dope - as Kiptum's coach says, "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - when it doesn't help them? If that is so, Kenyans must be the dumbest athletes on the planet (not to mention their foreign coaches who are involved in doping) - because that's the only conclusion we can arrive at on your analysis.
To the point - why do so many Kenyan distance runners (including marathon runners) dope - as Kiptum's coach says, "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - when it doesn't help them? If that is so, Kenyans must be the dumbest athletes on the planet (not to mention their foreign coaches who are involved in doping) - because that's the only conclusion we can arrive at on your analysis.
Maybe one day you can get off letsrun for a couple of days, travel to Iten, and find the answers to your questions.
But I doubt you will. You are the typical armchair quarterback. You believe you know everything about everything, even when your astounding ignorance gets exposed here day after day.
To the point - why do so many Kenyan distance runners (including marathon runners) dope - as Kiptum's coach says, "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - when it doesn't help them? If that is so, Kenyans must be the dumbest athletes on the planet (not to mention their foreign coaches who are involved in doping) - because that's the only conclusion we can arrive at on your analysis.
Maybe one day you can get off letsrun for a couple of days, travel to Iten, and find the answers to your questions.
But I doubt you will. You are the typical armchair quarterback. You believe you know everything about everything, even when your astounding ignorance gets exposed here day after day.
Not by you, or those who think like you. But I see you avoid the question that Kiptum's coach's comment raises.
Yawn. "Doping doesn't improve performance", yet innumerable athletes dope - including distance runners. The evidence that doping does what athletes hope it does - and WADA also knows - is comprehensive and longstanding; the practice has been part of sport for decades. Various sources have often been referred to here over the years but you still remain the doping equivalent of a flat-earther. I won't waste my time wandering down your rabbit-hole to try to persuade you out of the contradiction, that you believe doping doesn't improve performance yet athletes continue to dope in every sport (including distance and marathon running). Either they are unbelievably stupid - or you are.
I think you failed to understand the question: "Which of your false authorities say what you say?" You could settle it quickly, but instead, you are already wasting a great deal of your time writing all this waffle. Just give me some names and what they say in their own words.
To the point - why do so many Kenyan distance runners (including marathon runners) dope - as Kiptum's coach says, "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - when it doesn't help them? If that is so, Kenyans must be the dumbest athletes on the planet (not to mention their foreign coaches who are involved in doping) - because that's the only conclusion we can arrive at on your analysis.
This has already been explained to you.
To begin with, there are many talented Kenyans. Talented athletes are targeted more for testing. Talented athletes are also targeted more by unscrupulous coaches/agents/managers/doctors/pharmacists. Some unknown fraction of talented Kenyans are doping, either intentionally, or unintentionally (out of negligence) and some small percentage of those test positive.
"Doping is everywhere in Kenya" because "Doping is everywhere" -- also in the USA, in Europe (Spain, Italy, France, etc.), in Russia, in Greece, in Turkey, in Bahrain, in China, in India, and so on. It is not just the Kenyan athletes who are dumb -- it's athletes around the world, not to mention some of the naive and gullible fans who simply parrot what they are told without possessing any real evidence.
Yawn. "Doping doesn't improve performance", yet innumerable athletes dope - including distance runners. The evidence that doping does what athletes hope it does - and WADA also knows - is comprehensive and longstanding; the practice has been part of sport for decades. Various sources have often been referred to here over the years but you still remain the doping equivalent of a flat-earther. I won't waste my time wandering down your rabbit-hole to try to persuade you out of the contradiction, that you believe doping doesn't improve performance yet athletes continue to dope in every sport (including distance and marathon running). Either they are unbelievably stupid - or you are.
I think you failed to understand the question: "Which of your false authorities say what you say?" You could settle it quickly, but instead, you are already wasting a great deal of your time writing all this waffle. Just give me some names and what they say in their own words.
They are only "false authorities" to the doping-denier. It means the only authorities you accept as such confirm your delusions. It would be easier to convert a member of ISIS to democracy than prise you from your beliefs.
To the point - why do so many Kenyan distance runners (including marathon runners) dope - as Kiptum's coach says, "doping is everywhere in Kenya" - when it doesn't help them? If that is so, Kenyans must be the dumbest athletes on the planet (not to mention their foreign coaches who are involved in doping) - because that's the only conclusion we can arrive at on your analysis.
This has already been explained to you.
To begin with, there are many talented Kenyans. Talented athletes are targeted more for testing. Talented athletes are also targeted more by unscrupulous coaches/agents/managers/doctors/pharmacists. Some unknown fraction of talented Kenyans are doping, either intentionally, or unintentionally (out of negligence) and some small percentage of those test positive.
"Doping is everywhere in Kenya" because "Doping is everywhere" -- also in the USA, in Europe (Spain, Italy, France, etc.), in Russia, in Greece, in Turkey, in Bahrain, in China, in India, and so on. It is not just the Kenyan athletes who are dumb -- it's athletes around the world, not to mention some of the naive and gullible fans who simply parrot what they are told without possessing any real evidence.
If doping is truly everywhere, like you claim, then there is absolutely no point in Kiptum's coach - or anyone - saying "doping is everywhere in Kenya". It would be no different from saying the sky is everywhere. But that isn't what he means. Nor is it true - about doping. In some countries - like Russia, like Kenya - doping is rife and in others it is nowhere near as prevalent. So your observation is both factually wrong and ignorant and attempts to misrepresent what Kiptum's coach was saying.
Since you also acknowledge all athletes who dope are dumb because they think doping helps them that means Kenyans are dumber than most as they dope more than most.
However all you prove here is that you are far dumber than any doper.
I see you can't address the issue raised by that question. Why do so many Kenyans dope if it doesn't help them?
What question? There is no question on the thread title. Gervais stated what has been known for years. He was honest. rekrunner was also honest when he said:
""Doping is everywhere in Kenya" because "Doping is everywhere" -- also in the USA, in Europe (Spain, Italy, France, etc.), in Russia, in Greece, in Turkey, in Bahrain, in China, in India, and so on. It is not just the Kenyan athletes who are dumb -- it's athletes around the world, not to mention some of the naive and gullible fans who simply parrot what they are told without possessing any real evidence."
Of course you would say that's not what Gervais means, because you are so omniscient you know what he meant, you know what Gjert meant by "Faen, Filip!", you are like God! At least in your small, narcissistic mind you are.
I see you can't address the issue raised by that question. Why do so many Kenyans dope if it doesn't help them?
By the way, plenty of posters, myself included, have answered that question. You have read the answers and dismissed them. Stop being manipulative and picking fights.
If doping is truly everywhere, like you claim, then there is absolutely no point in Kiptum's coach - or anyone - saying "doping is everywhere in Kenya". It would be no different from saying the sky is everywhere. But that isn't what he means. Nor is it true - about doping. In some countries - like Russia, like Kenya - doping is rife and in others it is nowhere near as prevalent. So your observation is both factually wrong and ignorant and attempts to misrepresent what Kiptum's coach was saying.
Since you also acknowledge all athletes who dope are dumb because they think doping helps them that means Kenyans are dumber than most as they dope more than most.
However all you prove here is that you are far dumber than any doper.
Actually that is your claim too -- you are the one who keeps telling me that doping is throughout the sport. I did say earlier that "not only in Kenya, worldwide, with a few exceptions, like Japan."
The point to Kiptum's coach saying that can be found in the details -- in his own words, the "clumsy" Kenyans are "victims of a lack of education and information."
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
That explains why you don't know what trees look like. Note that Kiptum's coach does not say doping unnaturally enhanced the performance of any Kenyans.
haha his coach also didn't say that the Earth is round, but here we are.
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