Molly Seidel: "Who’s the GOAT?’ Who fucking cares? Who’s got the story that’s going to get people excited?”

I don’t get where Molly is coming from on this topic. I can’t think of anything better than spending several hours on LRC debating the race distance to the nearest km where Kiptum would be able to beat Jakob. When that’s done time to debate if PP can win D3 nationals, and then round out the day predicting the division 3 girls race at this years CA state meet.

I too saw that Hassan-Kiptum photo and wondered were they flirting? what if they had a kid and Hassan broke the marathon record whilst pregnant and Kiptum happily took two years paternity leave to nurse the child and Hassan broke the world record again and then it was established the Kiptum is actually 40 and must retire to coach their kid who can run the marathon in 1:55:12 but would prefer to become the king of the united kingdom of Kenya and Ethiopia

There's been a few useful posts about how the media landscape not just the 'life of the athlete' creates the story, or more likely doesn't. The commentary overlays the physical activity with the context, even if that's all technical, for example how hard someone trains, the trajectory of their PBs, their running style, their splits, and such. Even when it goes over your head, it supplies a logic to who performs well and justifies the time spent watching the sport.

I hope it isn't too cynical to read these content creation allusions and imagine Seidel may be feathering their own nest, telling the money that they are as valuable to the sport behind the scenes as anyone on the road.

The NBC crew in Budapest was NOT great.

Undecided on how I feel about the quote. On one hand, I think she's wrong and the GOAT conversation goes hand in hand with individual sports. Running isn't a team sport, so we are left to root for individuals. Similar to tennis, not many people are rooting for the 50th ranked professional - we are looking to the very few who are at the top of the sport and then we compare them to current and all time greats for fun. What was ever interesting about Nadal or Federer? One showed more emotion on the court than the other, but besides that I couldn't tell you the difference. That's why Rupp has been one of the biggest running stars in the US, and we always compare him to US distance runners of the past.

On the other hand, individual stories (I would argue that personality is a better term) are obviously very important to grow the sport. Look at someone like Blake Griffen - clearly not in the goat conversation in the NBA, but has his own individual fans that will cheer for him regardless of the laundry. I'm sure there are better examples. Craig Engels comes to mind for me as an analgous runner.

….who has an Olympic medal. How many have you got?

We talk GOAT because the sport is a competition. But even in art (cinema, literature, music) people make GOAT lists all the time.

If Molly does well enough in Paris next year she could be a GOAT candidate - a GOAT of minor medals in the Olympic/WC marathons. As Merlene Ottaway is the Bronze Queen of sprints, Molly Seidel could be the Bronze Queen of distance. We could have a thread on that and Molly would not be able to stop herself from reading it.

I fuc*ing love Molly Seidel and her response, girl ROCKS!

This is woke, that is woke, everything and everyone that unhinges you is woke

Unfortunately Kiptum is married with 2 kids, but Hassan is 100x more attracktive than his wife so she may have a chance at homewrecking.

When it comes to our sport GOAT talks don't matter much to people as much as you think. Do you think it was only Bolt's WR that caught the general public's attention or was it his charisma, story, uniqueness that made him popular. We still talk about German Fernandez till this day why? Because he had a great name and the story of a kid running two amazing times on the same day and then working a shift at Applebees the same night resonated with people for years.

Kipchoge does because they both won medals at the Tokyo Olympics in the marathon. And their medal ceremonies took place at the closing ceremony. They didn't talk but he gave her a fist bump.

Only got interested in Kelvin Kiptum when I heard his mother was not even present for his birth. Raised by mountain goats at the highest of altitudes.

Mate Kipchoge did (intentionally or unintentionally) some great branding, and the whole breaking 2 documentary and hype just added to that. He also got a great boost as the face of the Vaporfly which was a shoe revolution adopted by pretty much everyone in running even if they don't follow the pros.

If Kipchoge had run the exact same times he did and won the same races, but hadn't been the face of the vaporfly boom, hadn't had breaking 2, and hadn't created his "no human is limited" guru persona, he'd be equivalent to Geb or Bekele, who are famous amongst everyone who follows the pros in the sportbut aren't really known to the more casual runners or general public.

People care about different things. I personally care not at all about the stories. I like learning about training and running fast.

Others - generally more casual fans - prefer the stories.

Ultimately, runners' (and athletes in general) job is to advertise products. You can do that by drawing attention with extraordinary performances, or you can do that by telling stories and creating a following. Both are fine.

What is most important is a story that resonates with people, so she is right.

But what often is most resonate is all time performances. Often those people have stories that are incredible: their passion for the sport, their intense training, and being the first at something will always be important.

But as an example of this: who is more important right now in the non runners mind?Kipchoge or Kiptum?

Kipchoge! And not because of his Olympic wins, but because he ran sub 2. Doesn't matter that it was illegal, its a better headline, its a better story and Kipchoge will always be first.

Wait, what?? Did you read this before you posted it? The truth is literally the opposite of everything you just said.

Of course people's interest grows when they are told someone is the GOAT... Lance may have been a cheater and liar. But when people thought he was the GOAT, he drove the sports popularity in the US. I myself don't give a sh!t about cycling, but after hearing over and over again how this Lance guy was the GOAT, I finally decided to pay attention to the TDF.

Same thing with Michael Phelps and swimming... most people don't care about swimming, but people tuned in just to see what the fuss was all about.

Same thing with Tom Brady... go check the ticket sales, viewership and memorabilia sales after he joined the Buccaneers. Seriously, those years he was well past his prime, but people watched because they just wanted to see the GOAT.

In contrast, a video on IG of some dude dragging his disabled kid through an ironman will get lots of views, likes and comments for a brief 15 seconds until people get distracted by a deer getting rescued after falling through some ice!!

There are example after example that are the exact opposite of what you wrote

People watched Lance in large part because he was a cancer survivor and was, thus, inspiring and, to a lot of people, relatable. He is exactly the kind of person/story that Molly is saying sells. He also happened to be the best at the time.

Tom Brady was the best player ever in the most watched sport in America. He also had a story (6th round draft pick) that made him compelling. But even without that story, people watch the NFL. They watched before him and after him.

Phelps was watched because he was in the Olympics. How many non-Olympic events do you think that people watched him swim in? For the vast majority of people, the answer is zero.

But you missed her point anyway, which is that endlessly talking about who is the best does not make for compelling story. She's right.

The TikTok celebrity runner Erin Azar (Mrs. Space Cadet) will influence more people to get out and run and buy a pair of shoes and enter a 5k than Kelvin Kiptum will. She has almost a million followers and over 40 million "likes."

When I mention a man pulling his son through an Ironman, everyone knows exactly who I'm talking about. As for the first man to break 8:00? People would have to Google that because they have no idea.

It always amazes me how people on this site categorize runners and running fans as "Nerds". I can personally guarantee you that most elite athletes no matter the sport appreciate and respect athletic excellence, especially an endurance sport athlete, not too mention if you're an Olympian. Oh, and by the way it REALLY helps to be REALLY good.

100%

These dudes are pure hard core competitors...PERIOD!, and could give two sh^ts about what anyone says. KK probably did a 10 mile cool-down after Chicago to keep his mileage up to be ready for the next race.

I Absolutely have no issue with what Molly said, I don't agree, but still respect her accomplishments as an elite runner.