- Were 20% of the Chicago field that you say qualified for Boston wearing the same shoes?
- What percentage of the Chicago field normally qualify for Boston?
- If doping is a factor (it will be), could that also have enabled more runners to qualify on times?
The fact that you are (willlfully) ignorant of easily observable or knowable things does not make those things untrue. It also makes YOU the flat-earther.
"WiLLLfully"? You mean "wilfully"? Did your finger get stuck on the keyboard or are you simply iLLLLiterate? Sorry - illiterate.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
A damning report has shown how cycling’s world governing body, the UCI, colluded with Lance Armstrong from 1999 to 2009 to circumvent accusations he doped and to cement his status
The point is that you do need to draw a line SOMEWHERE. Would you be okay with "runners" wearing roller skates? If not, then you're drawing a line somewhere, too.
Some of us believe the line needs to be drawn to exclude the current super shoes. In my opinion, it's made "running" no longer running. It's some form of pogo-ing. If you want to make a separate sport out of pogo-ing, okay, but don't call it running. It's no more running than if they wore roller skates.
The current improvement is so small compared to previous improvements.
The shoes Webb ran in were light years ahead of Jim Ryun’s shoes.
The track spikes of today are closer to Webb than Webb was to Ryun.
So the cut off improvement should probably be like 1998.
Perhaps someone could explain what exactly it is in the the construction of a shoe that transforms physical performance? Essentially, it must be the sole, since the upper is only a cover and support for the foot for balance. What is the magic ingredient in that part of the shoe a few inches underneath the athlete's foot that is believed to take seconds off each lap on a track or minutes off a marathon time, when shoes have been constructed much as they are today for decades?
Use strava to learn training techniques from pros?
Text all your friends to meet up with you and pace your workouts?
Massage guns? Who are you kidding? Those things are industrial strength vibrators. 60 years ago adverts in woman's mags showed women holding a vibrator to her face with a big grin. Reduce stress... Massage guns... Everybody funny...now you funny too.
Let's think differently. I say this jokingly but if we're fixated on the time it should take for a "marathon" then we should extend the distance. Make a calculation of how many extra kilometers need to be run to account for new technology. Similar to the 3-point line in the NBA. Just push it back. New Marathon distance is 44.195 km.
Shoe technology has advanced throughout the years since the beginning of the modern marathon in 1896, so where should we draw the line on history regarding which records are legit and which records aren't.
People used to run in shoes with leather soles. Imagine if they said rubber soles weren't legit, or if foam wasn't allowed. Records were broken regularly throughout all the years of changes. Are all those records not legit?
Quit comparing previous shoe technology advancements to what we’re seeing today. There is no comparison. Absolutely 0 WRs pre cheat shoes can be attributed to shoes. Zero.
20% of the field in Chicago this year qualifying for Boston indicates the shoes offer improvement across the board. No doubt doping can offer even greater benefits, but denying the benefits of super shoes is absurd.
The cool weather this year was most likely the reason for the 20% BQ rate.
Right. Everyone forgets about Prefontaine, Viren, Shorter, Rogers, Coe, Bikila, Zatopek, Rono, Jones, Gerrouj, Morceli, Gebreselassie, Tergat. Their names are never brought up. Just "poof". They're gone.
All I ever hear about is Jakob. Juiced up super shoe Jakob.
If we go far enough into the future, he'll be "forgotten" too.
This sport is no different than others. Rule changes and technology change all sports. Think about tennis rackets and golf clubs used in the early eighties.
Rule changes in the NFL and NBA have changed scoring and other aspects of the game. How many kids can name Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson? How many can name Fran Tarkenton or Dick Butkus?
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As far as shoes- I have to say that shoe technology has helped to keep me running since we first started to see control, neutral, cushioned shoes. Before that I was always injured.
I wore custom orthotics from 1984 until recently and now, I can run with shoes, no orthotics and I've staying healthy.
I was all for the super shoes- as in Endorphin Pro, Alpha Fly, etc.
But I don't like the most recent incantation. It's going too far.
And that's a fine but tough line to draw in my view.
If I had Saucony Rides when I was 15 back in the mid-1970's things would have been very different for me.
Even the non-carbon plated racing shoes and spikes available in very recent years are lightyears ahead of what we wore back then.
Every brand has a "bouncy shoe". Times always improve with technology, accept it. Finishing positions are timeless. So sick of people talking about time when this sport is about racing. No one cares if your 2:20 marathon in 2015 is worth a 2:18 now. Both get you to the US Trials for your era of racing. The only people complaining are those who never accomplished anything in this sport besides a time they deemed good.
So if the shoes are aiding performance it must show in increasing stride-length and/or turnover. Where is the data that confirms this, and if so, how does the few inches of a sole of a shoe do this in a way shoes haven't done before?
There are quite a few published studies that have evaluated "super shoe" benefits. Its not incumbent upon me or other posters to spoon feed you something you could easily find yourself if you had any interest in actual evidence.
What you don't understand - despite your username - is that drugs are not a "constant" in the sense they don't change. They are changing all the time - and far more often than shoes and with more comprehensive effect since they change how the body functions. They are the basis of most athletic improvement in at least the last 40 or so years.
world record in the
men's
1500m - 25 years old
3000m - 27 years old
LJ - 32 years old
HJ - 30 years old
TJ - 28 years old
DT - 37 years old
HT - 37 years old
JT - would be 39 years old without change of the implement
women's
100m - 35 years old
200m - 35 years old
400m - 38 years old
800m - 40 years old
HJ - 36 years old
LJ - 35 years old
DT - 35 years old
JT - would be 35 years old without change of the implement
SP - 36 years old
Hept - 35 years old
Much improvement so see here. Is it because of the improved drugs?
What you don't understand - despite your username - is that drugs are not a "constant" in the sense they don't change. They are changing all the time - and far more often than shoes and with more comprehensive effect since they change how the body functions. They are the basis of most athletic improvement in at least the last 40 or so years.
world record in the
men's
1500m - 25 years old
3000m - 27 years old
LJ - 32 years old
HJ - 30 years old
TJ - 28 years old
DT - 37 years old
HT - 37 years old
JT - would be 39 years old without change of the implement
women's
100m - 35 years old
200m - 35 years old
400m - 38 years old
800m - 40 years old
HJ - 36 years old
LJ - 35 years old
DT - 35 years old
JT - would be 35 years old without change of the implement
SP - 36 years old
Hept - 35 years old
Much improvement so see here. Is it because of the improved drugs?
Every brand has a "bouncy shoe". Times always improve with technology, accept it. Finishing positions are timeless. So sick of people talking about time when this sport is about racing. No one cares if your 2:20 marathon in 2015 is worth a 2:18 now. Both get you to the US Trials for your era of racing. The only people complaining are those who never accomplished anything in this sport besides a time they deemed good.
Cool. Scrap world lists and WRs then. While we’re at it, national, age, school, etc., etc., etc. records as well. Part of the fun of lists in the sport was comparing our past. With the emergence of PEDs that has kinda been out the window for a while. But now with the shoes we can’t even compare EPO times anymore.
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