Do elite pros hurt as much as mid and back of the pack runners?

obviously some potential for slight misunderstanding, if not complete misuse of words, by Kelvin Kiptum since English is not his first language but here is what he said about his 3 career marathons to this point:

Kiptum later said that he has not felt in pain at any point of the three marathons he has raced, a statement so galling that we had to triple-check it.
LRC: You’ve never felt in pain in a marathon?
Kiptum: Yes.
LRC: You have, or you haven’t?
Kiptum: I haven’t.

letsrun.com

Kelvin Kiptum Runs 2:00:35 to Smash World Record at 2023 Chicago Marathon

LetsRun.com

Kiptum, who had never run a marathon 12 months ago, now owns three of the six fastest times ever.

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I am also curious about the role of nutrition and recovery in this equation. It is possible that elite runners are less sore because they eat a healthier diet and get more rest than slower runners.

This. And also, Kiptum ran a faster second half and finished even faster. Those are the races that don't hurt. The ones that do hurt are the ones where we start too fast and slow down.

Agree. Getting hit in the balls is “Pain.” ⚽️⚽️

Well as a non-elite but not mid-packer either older dude (40+) I'm pretty comfortable in 100 mile+ weeks and doing hard workouts. However after running yesterday in 2:3x, my legs are totally trashed.

In training I don't generally do M pace longer than 90 min so I suppose it stands to reason. However 90 min could be in the middle of a 20-23 mile run.

Also as I age, I guess either my pain tolerance is getting lower or things just hurt more. F me. Pushing too hard in a workout or strength session can keep me out longer.

Again however, this isn't the point which is assuming both runners are fit, which one hurts more? The elite runner or the mid-back pack runner? Saying an elite runner is more fit than a lesser runner is erroneous. He's just more talented.

Think of it in terms of weight lifting. One guy benches 400 and another benches 200. They both fail on their 10th rep; certainly one guy is stronger but they both reached their physical limit at the same point.

It is conditioning. If you don't have the proper conditioning (or you're just old and so your systems don't all fire efficiently like they used to) and you go into a race you're gonna feel it hurt a lot earlier in the race because your body is less efficiently processing what it needs to in order to keep you running fast. Elite pros are highly conditioned and have done lots of training at race pace so their bodies can handle it longer without feeling like its hurting.

Average jogger or runner who isn't too serious about is not going to have trained their body anywhere near as much to handle race conditions.

Also depends on the type of conditioning you are doing.

Take one example of mine, when I was injured. I was injured and could only run three times a week (and could only even run that by taking pain killers before each run haha...it was rough times). First couple months of the season I was just doing three distance runs a week. Ran a I dunno like ~16:15 5k off that and it felt good, the race was fun. While I had only done a couple workouts leading up to the race so certainly hadn't gotten my body ready to run at race pace, 5k is pretty aerobic and at least had some aerobic conditioning thank to pretty much only doing distance runs. After that I had to try to get ready for the 1500 so I switched to doing two track workouts a week and one distance run (actually I may not have even done the distance run on weeks when I raced). So I was barely doing any aerobic conditioning at all and like a month later ran another 5k, ran the exact same time, but that thing hurt like hell the whole way. I was better prepared for a 1500, but with almost no aerobic conditioning for a month the 5k was super painful as compared to feeling in the zone a month earlier, and I ran the exact same time to the second both times. So it's not like I ran slower just because it hurt more, I just had less aerobic conditioning and more anaerobic conditioning at that point than a month prior so I was topping out my aerobic uptake much quicker and had to dip into my now larger anaerobic reserve much sooner which made the race hurt a lot more despite identical results.

Elite pros are gonna have all the right conditioning and lots of it. Average back of the packer or middle of the packer is not going to be optimally trained like so yeah its gonna hurt more....to a certain degree. I mean you can have great conditioning but simply be much less talented, or simply still be a teenager growing into your talent, and you're going to be much slower than elite pros but if your training has gotten you to peak shape for what you are currently capable of I imagine that's a similar feeling to a top runner, just much slower. But your average person is not going to be training optimally like that.

my coach said that the slower runner feels more pain because they were in the race longer. let say there was a 5K and two guys tried their hardest and 1 guy ran 15 min and the other guy ran 18 min. well that 18 min guy suffered for 3 minutes longer than the 15 min guy. being fast has its perks.

Noakes, in The Lore of Running, cites studies indicating that marathon winners are more dehydrated at the end of races than the non-winners. Whether this is a chicken-egg cart-horse thing or not, it's interesting.

I find it funny that some will make an assumption based on themselves.

How about everyone is different, elite or not. And maybe some hurt more than others, while still being faster, or just feel pain or discomfort differently, judge it differently..?
Maybe some are better than others because they can handle pain better and are able to push themselves more?
Maybe some are better because the are not in as much pain due to good physiology/genetics?
Who knows...

I get the question but I do think this is impossible to answer other than a cliché generic "it is different for everyone".
I remember seeing an interview with Jakob I where he actually said he gets nervous before races because of the pain he will be in.
And is he still puking after the 1500m races?
So here's an elite who definitely feels the pain.

And maybe Kiptum really had a perfect race or is just not honest or does not rate discomfort as pain. Awesome job, either way!

And how fast you used to run compared to Kennedy?

I disagree. I'm slow as hell but I can pace myself. I've recently done a race in 2:16 that the winner completed in 1:20. I can garantee you I didn't suffer 56 minutes longer than him because I suffered for a grand total of 15 minutes max.

I always felt races were the most painful when I was in decent but not great shape. When I was in great shape, my hardest efforts never felt as painful, despite always trying my best. Based on the look of elite races, where people are jumping up and down after winning, my guess is that elite's probably feel less pain than people who aren't in as good of shape

How about elites are maybe better at hiding the pain plus the adrenaline of winning (because you mention jumping up and down) helps them to keep it together for a few minutes. Before they then go and throw up/lie down, feel the pain?

Just another "theory" to show how really, this discussion cannot be objective. We would need a study.

Honestly, it's different types of pain.

A NASCAR/endurance racing vehicle is an incredible piece of engineering. It can withstand immense amounts of heat and stress and operate at 7000+ rpms for hours. Its red-line is incredibly high.

Your average sedan will struggle heavily to get close to 7k rpms (is it even possible?). If you did manage it, the vehicle would probably turn into a fireball after a few minutes or have some sort of failsafe shutdown. You could operate at your perscribed red-line threshold, but the car would still run the risk of over heating before the race is over. Either way, you're limping to the finish.

I do think elites have a significantly higher pain tolerance in comparison to hobbyists. They don't feel pain the same way, and their body/mind is much more accustomed to the stresses of racing. They can push themselves far harder and for longer durations.

But honestly, watching hobby joggers take 5 hours to do a marathon or 16 hours for an Ironman... that just looks like a far more miserable day.

I'd rather be the racecar.

Elites feel pain, they're just used to it.

I agree long races suck. People only do it because they can't run fast and so they have adapted to what they are good at. Now that I'm over 60 and my sprinting days are long time behind me, I find it amusing when these incapable runners on this site wax poetic over some long race.

Juvenile response. Clownish.