Should slow kids be kicked of high school cross country teams ?

Comparing it to grades is fake. Grades there is a standard to pass. I have not seen a meet where they start pulling up the finish line early at some designated minute mark -- and to be blunt, they often have another race coming up so they can't. So you're saying we should arbitrarily step in and say you make some time or don't make the bus. This is not a XC rule with grades like no pass no play. This is performative. This is nothing more than you standing at the bus door. What if you are short JV runners? Our JV rarely had enough to score as a team. Should they still turn away or not dress a potential 5th kid on some sort of performative "not good enough for coach" basis?

In my state, the 7 runner limit does a little of this for you. Just like we can only run 3 an event in track in HS. And yet a bright coach will often have a JV team, or figure out a way to get a weaker kid a race in some under-filled event.

I am going to keep pointing to, a kid who couldn't consistently make the 3 man hurdle rosters in JHS was our best 110s guy who won district and went to regionals as a senior in HS. If you had your way he'd have been showed the door as a 12 year old. He would not have made the leap if he had been off the team and uncoached. He eventually surpassed the guy put on varsity as a frosh, the one you would have adored. Precisely because he was kept in the tent and eventually found some gears, worked his way up, solid JV, solid varsity, good varsity.

I am sure you'd like running a team for the 4 year varsity guy who never podiumed at district in anything but looked above average day 1. That is easy. That is lazy IMO. To me if you want to prove you can REALLY coach make me another 110s guy like that from ground up. Sounds like my "roll out the ball for us" HS soccer coach who took a lot of awards credit for being handed the most loaded roster in the state and not winning state with it.

This is a question that gets asked of a lot of sports. I am a fan of no-cut XC and track, with the underlying expectation being set that there are no guarantees for competitive opportunities and that training of certain groups will be just that -- group training.

The Unites States Tennis Association decided this was something they needed to address several years ago and started publishing guides, as well as promoting programs that were no-cut (https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/tennis-in-schools/14613NetGenHighSchoolNo-CutCoachingTips.pdf)

Maybe the USATF, through their alliance with the NFHS should do the same. TBH, the $35 XC Coaching course that was developed by the USATF for the NFHS isn't a bad starting point to get parent volunteers to help. I took the course in less than 2 hours this summer. I am not a coach, but a parent and the course can also be used if you are trying to get a coaching designation with the USATF. It is not perfect, but a great intro for parents.

Running is a lifetime sport, like tennis. It is a way to encourage kids to stay healthy and be part of a team. Also, my oldest son's school realized that by offering it, you sometimes find kids who had never run prior to HS but find they are naturally good and turn into kids who can score at the district meet by their junior or senior year.

No.

let me reframe it this way. what if i think you have failed as a coach if you can't progress a kid enough to meet your own arbitrary cut line? part of coaching can be taking credit for what shows up on your doorstep while not being judged for whether you make it any better.

example: jumper lands in college coach's lap, his distance is 3 inches shorter than HS PR but he podiums at conference. vs. kid was average in HS, gains 3 feet, podiums at conference. they both easily make some arbitrary 17-18'' line set to weed out pretenders but one of them was coached and the other.....not so much. if you go by results, i've seen coaches brag on both.

what is more interesting to me is can you whip the 18' jumper into a 20' jumper and away from your own fake line. otherwise IMO you're either judging native talent or not requiring yourself to try coaching them long enough, as "they aren't worthy of you," a neat trick where anyone you allow on the team will reflect well on you even if you didn't really do a thing. my HS XC coach had a talent for taking well coached JHS distance runners and not adding much, but taking credit for how fast they showed up day 1. meanwhile guy down the road with a state title could churn out dozens of polished speedsters, a JV team almost like some varsity.

I haven’t read all the responses but if I was running an XC program I’d break the team into two parts:

1. Competitive: Varsity, JV, Freshman

2. Run Club: All the kids that want to run for all the other good reasons

Everyone would go to meets but the coaching emphasis would be different between the groups.

Of course it does. We are merely pointing out that if the bus holds 50 amd you have 60 on the team, 10 stay home or a 2nd bus is required. And 10 more uniforms are required. And an extra coach is required at some threshold. Nobody is trying to upset you by merely stating the facts. Most schools don't have to cut. That is great. But some schools do have to cut. Imagine during track season, having 250 kids at the track. It becomes unmanageable amd unsafe. Find a school who makes cut that is not elite. I challenge you. Every school that I am aware of that is making cuts, has an elite program.

Hard disagree. High schools aren't spending thousands of dollars a year on cross country, and if they are, then they can afford to fund "slower" runners. Transportation to meets is usually done by a school bus, and if you double or triple up then it should fit a pretty sizable team. Looking past that, everyone should be allowed to compete. Not only might someone who's "slow" their first 2-3 years pop off as an upperclassmen, but the support guys not on the varsity 7 give is unquantifiable. I was my school's top runner, and was competing for state titles all four years. The value those slower guys and girls bring on a culture side is great and it helped me enjoy my time as a high school athlete.

York has never cut a runner. ever. Even with 150 runners on the team. And no one is dogging practices. Even kids with cerebral palsy run XC and are celebrated when they finish even if they are 4 minutes behind the last able-bodied runner. I'm astonished this is even a thread, but then it was a high-school troll who posted it.

Adding onto my previous post, if my tax dollars are helping to fund the school, then my kid should at least get the chance to practice and compete at dual meets. Parents often will donate to help get new uniforms, timing systems, and fund transport to meets so there really isn't a reason to fully cut an athlete unless they aren't motivated or are negatively impacting the team culture. Just because someone is slow doesn't mean they can't compete at some level of sports.

Any minor additional costs to have slower kids run on a team are more than offset by the public health benefits of having fewer kids / future adults with myriad health issues that stem from a lack of exercise.

Tens of thousands. A bus costs $500. Two coaches cost $8000. Uniforms and warmups cost $200 per runner. State meet is overnight which costs about $1000. 10 meets x $500 = $5000. Uniforms cost $200 x 50 = $10,000. Replace 20% per year assuming 5 year life so $2000 per year. All told, assume bout $20,000 per year.

Dual meets? Where do those exist? Our smallest meet includes 15 teams and our largest has more than 100.

It's prevalent in the Northeast. The typical season includes invites on weekends and dual/tri/quad meets during the week.

Responding to your other post, those are all assumptions. 20% replacement/5 year life isn't that common, the schools that do that can afford it without breaking a sweat. Warm-ups are also typically purchased by the athlete and their family, not the school, because it's something they can keep. As for meets, what teams go to 10 invites during the xc season? If you include indoor/outdoor track, those count as two separate sports and receive funding accordingly. Larger schools get more funding anyways, so it's scaled for bigger squads.

I am jealous of that though, dual meets were sometimes a drag and I'd have preferred to be fresh for the major invites.

My daughter runs for a team with about 45 girls and boys each. The top 20 get to travel each weekend (they only take day trips), and the coach makes sure to host a few 'local' or JV types races so everyone else gets a chance to race at some point. For a few meets, they take multiple buses so everyone gets that experience. My daughter is varsity, but she has many team friends who aren't, and that is a good thing. Keep all the kids, running is a lifetime sport with tremendous physical and mental health benefits.

we didn't have cuts for XC but we did for track. Our outdoor team was huge.

I'm not against cuts for XC actually but I don't think any freshmen should be cut, and you should be generous because people can improve rapidly.

I'm female and know girls' times so I wouldn't cut anyone who can run a sub 29:00 5K. So that'll include some slow pokes for sure. And I wouldn't cut any freshmen.

I think there is something to be said about cutting. There is value in finding a love for running yes, but also something you can contribute to in a meaningful way.

No who cares. When I ran cross country I was one of the top runners on my high school team, but there were some kids who ran cross country to keep in shape for other sports. They did all the work outs, all the distance runs all the intervals, they didn't make the traveling team, but ran in home meets and these were pretty cool kids. they revered the top runners and I never had any animosity toward them. Made some good friends. Uniform were borrowed to turn back in at seasons end and we all had to furnish our own running/racing shoes. There were not many of these kids just two or three and I respected anyone to do the type of training we did back in those days. No problem at all with these kids!

First of all I don't work for a high school but many of my athletes are high school aged. Many years ago I just about told a parent that their son was too young and couldn't keep up. He is now a 356 miler and school record holder at an Ivy League school.

I do have an assistant but she only helps out when I'm running late. I get up to 40-50 athletes to our Tuesday and Thursday sessions. Slowest athletes I work with is a 48 year old male is running 2145 for 5k parkrun fastest well one athlete was at WXC champs another athlete competed in Budapest.

Embrace your challenge and don't limit your creativity to help those young athletes.

Good luck.

By the way my Div 1 coach was John Cook and I don't have great memories of him.

Alr man there are runners who run xc who are just there to be fit. By cutting people it's actually gatekeeping them from the way they enjoy being healthy. This cannot happen it a country with a 50% adult obesity rate.