Yes, Yared is more talented than Jakob. It is the genetics. We forget that he is a descendant of Ethiopian immigrants, a country boiling over with talents from 800m to the marathon. When you get someone with that kind of background then add passion then western scientific approach to sports training, you have a one in a century athlete! Athing Mu falls in that category but her lack of passion/ interest is hindering her.
Bad fail by woke left again. The born to run insufferable idiot crowd forgets again that despite all of Nugus supposed genetics, and despite his western training and drugs he is still way below a European. That must burn. Now only thing left is clutching to some imaginary talent that Nuguss hasnt shown and never will.
They also forget we didn't fail to notice the supposed african genetics western training of Nur, who was a big fail. Did much worse than the European Gressier. Let alone Jakob
When will people start to understand, enduring massive mileage IS THE TALENT.
Some don't put in the mileage but get the results. That also is the "talent".
Not in the pro scene where the best guys all put in their healthy mileage level, maybe for hobby joggers it's true. If your results are worse because you can't put in the same mileage as someone else, you are not as talented as them.
Of course genetics i.e. talent is everything. How else do you explain that the UK's greatest distance runner is Mo Farah (East African ancestry) and that one of the best US's middle distance talents ever is Yared Nuguse (East African ancestry). Combined mixed race population of hundreds of millions.
Its weird that you don't know more about doping considering how much you yak on about it. Its not like you can just do more drugs than the next guy and then you become better. I did a different sport (without drug testing) when I was younger, and while I was drug free I was beating several guys that confirmed to me that they were doing drugs. They had simply less talent than me (and most probable a low response on doping), and their training way way inferior than me. Other competitors was miles ahead of me, and would equally beat me even if I had loaded up on drugs. Talent and training has extremely much to say, even if someone uses drugs.
This black and white thought where you think you can judge who is doping or not, and the thought that someone is winning means they automatically is more drugged up just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject matter. I can guarantee you that I would never beat Kipchoge or Paavo Nurmi no matter how much doping I would do.
The more you know about it, the more nuanced it becomes. I think its important to have some knowledge about this as it supports the idea that you have to have a lot of randomized testing throughout the year and throughout the field. Its crazy that all Olympic athletes isn't required to give randomized, at least monthly, blood, urine and hair samples say the year leading into olympics (or just throughout their career).
You can't see the wood for the trees. Doping doesn't mean that those with no talent will beat those who do have talent, but it does mean you will be better for the talent you have. We see the general effects of doping in the overall level of improvement in a sport that can't be attributed to talent, training and technique alone.
But the hardest thing for fans like you to accept is that if there is something that will give an athlete the edge they will take it - especially if the risk of being caught is minimal. That is why sport today is full of doping at the top. The stakes are high; the risks are low. But for many fans their dreams would be shattered to realise this is their sport now.
Its weird that you say that I don't see the wood for the trees but reiterate what I just said. Then you go into the usual schpiel where you pretend that whoever you discuss with am ignorant and stupid compared to you. I have an advice: realize that if you think that everyone dopes, then it doesn't make any sense to call out single athletes. Another advice: if you hate track and field so much, find some other sport!
(I won't try to give you a third advice - everyone is innocent until they have submitted a positive sample. You can have this position while still wanting more resources to anti-doping in the sport. Life is just so much better that way - because then you can focus on track and field instead of speculation. :) )
This post was edited 54 seconds after it was posted.
Yared grew up in Kentucky running 30 mile weeks until he was 18 and now he’s run a 3:43 mile. Jakob was running 100 mile weeks and competing in diamond league races at 16 and has also run a 3:43 mile. Imagine if Yared had been training like Jakob from a young age.
Was Len Bias more talented than Michael Jordan?
Was German Fernandez more talented than (most collegians ever)?
Can you ignore that Jakob is a lab experiment and how that played in his performances? Just look at his medical following. The day where he get a slight Under performance there is quick medical diagnostic.
Edit.
Take the example of Jacob Kiplimo.
In 2020 everything was showing that Kiplimo is the next world beater.
But since he was managed by a poor country, all his talent was lost.
There are ten of examples like this every year, but the haters like Coevett (and this forum is full of them) don't want to hear anything.
Kiplimo who has the Half Marathon World Record and won World XC this year? His talent hasn't been lost by any stretch. He just had an injury, which is something Jakob's brothers frequently have had under the same management in a rich country.
Kiplimo is also able to access a ton of resources through his Italian management company (Rosa), and one of his coaches is also Italian. He gets Lactate testing and all sorts of things that a Western athlete does as well. Injuries are part of the sport, and just because Jakob seems to be immune to them (though prone to sickness perhaps), doesn't mean that could be the case for everyone else.
Look at your friends Euro-American! they keep downvoting me for almost nothing.
Kiplimo was the 3000m U17 record holder of all times. Even his shape is the one of a pure miler. Remember the time in 2020 when he out-kicked Ingerbrigsten setting the performance of the year in the 3000m.
Ingebrigsten (half natural talent) was coved mediatized (God my limited English betray me) while the young Kiplimo was thrown in longer distances and road races. And everyone know these distances consume the talent.
One thing I would add about the hatred of some European about anything that brought Aouita and his disciples.
Aouita was an independent creator. He never dared knock at the door of Brits.
Yared had a pacer for 1.609 meters. But yes, very talented.
And that said, there isn't but one or two others in the world who could hang on for that pace (did you see the other runners in that race?). And, because it was a race, Jakob could not dare slow down, or he would have lost. So yes, Yared had the benefit of a fast time-trial style race, but Jakob had the benefit of Yared sticking to him. Without Yared, Jakob doesn't run 3:43.73. One doesn't happen without the other.
At 24 in his second year with Ritz at altitude and following a full college stint at Notre Dame with a leading coach, Nuguse has had plenty of development time. 3:43.97 did not just emerge suddenly. He was a top Kentucky athlete in high school, despite his late start but he's been developing six years since high school now. He ran 3:34.7 CR years ago. I hope we see what he can do at 800 and 5000 next year, as he claims he can run a fast 800 and his coach thinks he might have his best event in the 5000m.
Feels like people feel the need to defend Jakob by saying “he’s not less talented, he needs to be talented to run high mileage!”. Listen up, Yared is more talented than Jakob, and I think that makes it all the more impressive that Jakob is still kicking his butt (for now).
It has taken Jakob 15 years to be at the level he is, and it’s taken Yared maybe six. If you simply look at their improvement curve, Yared’s is way steeper. If the progression of each continues, of course Yared should be faster in two years.
Jakob being able to endure 120mpw isn’t really a great argument either, because it has taken him 15 years to build up to that. He almost never gets injured because he has had probably the most sensible and gradual progression of training of any runner in the entire world. That is incredible, and in my book, far more impressive than talent.
Jakob could absolutely end up on top for the next 5+ years. His improvement curve is steady, and he is almost never injured. Yared is coming along unbelievably quickly, but there is a much higher likelihood of injury and setbacks. This is a testament to Jakob’s talent, but far more so the incredible hard-work, consistency, and self-control he has put in for longer than 99.9% of athletes are willing to. The fact that Yared is a more talented runner and Jakob still kicks his butt makes Jakob even more impressive.
Based on the kind of training Jakob does, combined with his incredible speed, he should also be able to absolutely destroy the 10k-Half marathon for years to come. Yeah, I get it, he isn’t 5’0 and 90lbs, but his training is almost entirely threshold and his finishing speed will be unparalleled over 10k+. It’s like Sifan Hassan in the marathon
Also for all that say “aLL tHe EliTEs wOrk JuST as HaRd, dONt u ThINk jOsH KeRR wOrkS HarD??”
Yes, of course they do. But how many of them have been working very hard and with imo the most intelligent aerobic based system for 15 years? Africans run for that long, but how intelligently? Westerners don’t put in volume early and then break down more easily later on. And yeah he’s probably on every legal substance you can take, but who isn’t? I mean, Gjert is 3 for 3 (now 4 for 4) with his nordic blood. You really don’t think Yared, Kerr, etc wouldn’t be running even faster if put in the same program since age 8? Many would’ve quit long ago though, and Jakob hasn’t
If we are comparing the improvement curve of Jakob vs. Nuguse, we also need to compare it with every other athlete who has not been training for 15 years. By that sense, there are three dozen athletes in the world right now with significantly more talent than Jakob. Don't know why we are arguing this. So Jakob, then, is one of the least talented track runners in the world right now.
Feels like people feel the need to defend Jakob by saying “he’s not less talented, he needs to be talented to run high mileage!”. Listen up, Yared is more talented than Jakob, and I think that makes it all the more impressive that Jakob is still kicking his butt (for now).
It has taken Jakob 15 years to be at the level he is, and it’s taken Yared maybe six. If you simply look at their improvement curve, Yared’s is way steeper. If the progression of each continues, of course Yared should be faster in two years.
Jakob being able to endure 120mpw isn’t really a great argument either, because it has taken him 15 years to build up to that. He almost never gets injured because he has had probably the most sensible and gradual progression of training of any runner in the entire world. That is incredible, and in my book, far more impressive than talent.
Jakob could absolutely end up on top for the next 5+ years. His improvement curve is steady, and he is almost never injured. Yared is coming along unbelievably quickly, but there is a much higher likelihood of injury and setbacks. This is a testament to Jakob’s talent, but far more so the incredible hard-work, consistency, and self-control he has put in for longer than 99.9% of athletes are willing to. The fact that Yared is a more talented runner and Jakob still kicks his butt makes Jakob even more impressive.
Based on the kind of training Jakob does, combined with his incredible speed, he should also be able to absolutely destroy the 10k-Half marathon for years to come. Yeah, I get it, he isn’t 5’0 and 90lbs, but his training is almost entirely threshold and his finishing speed will be unparalleled over 10k+. It’s like Sifan Hassan in the marathon
Whether someone is 800/1500, 1500/5000 or 5/10 comes down to genetics. The only exceptions are Hasssan and maybe Aouita. Training for 15 years does not alter a runner’s natural balance of strength and speed.
Feels like people feel the need to defend Jakob by saying “he’s not less talented, he needs to be talented to run high mileage!”. Listen up, Yared is more talented than Jakob, and I think that makes it all the more impressive that Jakob is still kicking his butt (for now).
It has taken Jakob 15 years to be at the level he is, and it’s taken Yared maybe six. If you simply look at their improvement curve, Yared’s is way steeper. If the progression of each continues, of course Yared should be faster in two years.
Jakob being able to endure 120mpw isn’t really a great argument either, because it has taken him 15 years to build up to that. He almost never gets injured because he has had probably the most sensible and gradual progression of training of any runner in the entire world. That is incredible, and in my book, far more impressive than talent.
Jakob could absolutely end up on top for the next 5+ years. His improvement curve is steady, and he is almost never injured. Yared is coming along unbelievably quickly, but there is a much higher likelihood of injury and setbacks. This is a testament to Jakob’s talent, but far more so the incredible hard-work, consistency, and self-control he has put in for longer than 99.9% of athletes are willing to. The fact that Yared is a more talented runner and Jakob still kicks his butt makes Jakob even more impressive.
Based on the kind of training Jakob does, combined with his incredible speed, he should also be able to absolutely destroy the 10k-Half marathon for years to come. Yeah, I get it, he isn’t 5’0 and 90lbs, but his training is almost entirely threshold and his finishing speed will be unparalleled over 10k+. It’s like Sifan Hassan in the marathon
Whether someone is 800/1500, 1500/5000 or 5/10 comes down to genetics. The only exceptions are Hasssan and maybe Aouita. Training for 15 years does not alter a runner’s natural balance of strength and speed.
I think Farah was also an exception, and jakob can realistically be a better version of him. time will tell.
If we are comparing the improvement curve of Jakob vs. Nuguse, we also need to compare it with every other athlete who has not been training for 15 years. By that sense, there are three dozen athletes in the world right now with significantly more talent than Jakob. Don't know why we are arguing this. So Jakob, then, is one of the least talented track runners in the world right now.
That’s ridiculous. For 1500 through 5000, Jacob is the best ever. Except for 2 one-off guys he’s too strong for 1500m and too fast for those in the 5000m. Other runners could start at age 11 and still be physically incapable of running 7:54 for two miles.
Whether someone is 800/1500, 1500/5000 or 5/10 comes down to genetics. The only exceptions are Hasssan and maybe Aouita. Training for 15 years does not alter a runner’s natural balance of strength and speed.
I think Farah was also an exception, and jakob can realistically be a better version of him. time will tell.
Yeah, I forgot about Mo. I believe when it’s all over, Jacob will have been better at 1500m, Farrah at 10000m and with a crossover at about 5000m.