Why do retards always drag this up as an example of XC, the f*cking race got an average grade of 34,5%, average. And lasts for almost 10 minutes continously.
No XC world champ course will ever be in the same league as this hill climb.
I really think the odds would be stacked against him. I am not sure he would even be top 5. What is going on here? Presumably if it was the same distance on a track he would have a chance to medal? Maybe he wouldn’t run as well on the grass, dirt or hills? I think the two Ugandans and a couple other Africans would beat him for sure.
Was at Aarhus when Jakob struggled in the junior race.
At Bathurst he would I believe struggled as well although the heat wasn't as bad in the men's race.
If you understand PWR (power to weight ratio) you would understand why. Bigger runners running uphill require more energy and over the last 2 years the course elevations have risen by 324m at Aarhus and approximately 285m at Bathurst.
He may have medalled but I wouldn't bet on him to win.
Find the 10k quote and link it. I don’t believe it, as he’s said the 3K/2 mile may be his best if anything.
I think I’ve pretty much have found it (well, not the exact mentioning of 10k as his current best distance, but very much implying -pretty sure he has said literally 10000m somewhere, but after gone through a lot I have now got a somewhat overdose of Jakob, although I like the guy), so check out the link below (the infamous post Worlds 5000m citius mag interview, where Jakob calls Kerr “the next guy”!). -from 2 min 55 sec Jakob says something like this: “5000m is obviously my best event… I’m more an aerobic guy than an anaerobic -the longer the distance is the better for me…” He also says that he thinks he can break the WR in the 5000m now (in this, or the Gault interview, etc, etc).
I think this interview, and a couple of others from the same couple of days, f.ex with Jonathan Gault, clearly shows that he knows the difference (of course he does) between track distances and half and full marathon, and that the two latter raise the need for specific preparation and training. But listening to him it also seems pretty obvious that he regards a 10k already is in his wheelhouse based on his current training. And although he never has claimed to be able to run 26.10 I see it as sort of a given him thinking he can break the 5k WR, and seeing himself as better the longer distance he is up against (with the exception of those needing specific preparation).
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Why do retards always drag this up as an example of XC, the f*cking race got an average grade of 34,5%, average. And lasts for almost 10 minutes continously.
No XC world champ course will ever be in the same league as this hill climb.
I’ll just remind the braintrust here that Garret Heath, who was on the larger side of things for world class distance runners and not nearly as good as JI, defeated Mo Farah, Asbel Kiprop, and Kenny B at Edinburg CC.
Garret was a great CC skier, I imagine JI has a background in that as a Norwegian.
Yes, but Jakob sucked in cross country skiing (according to his brother Filip, although he got a third and a fourth placing in the regional champs as a child)…
Why do retards always drag this up as an example of XC, the f*cking race got an average grade of 34,5%, average. And lasts for almost 10 minutes continously.
No XC world champ course will ever be in the same league as this hill climb.
ha, classic letsrun response. its humorous, mostly because of the picture. of course Jakob would crush XC, people are just looking for ridiculous things to debate.
While the conditions are much tougher at World XC vs EU XC champs and the competition is also much tougher, he has run 10K ish distances in XC conditions and won multiple gold medals at EU XC and U23 EU XC distances.
I think he would transition just fine to World XC if he felt like it and be a medal threat but not as sure as on the track.
Jakob never competed in U23 Europeans X country Champs. He jumped directly from U20 (where he won the 6+km race 4 times) to senior level where he have won the 2 (10km) races he has competed in so far.
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If the X country Worlds is not on a very steep or technical course (fore example with many turns) I think he will medal. Forget about the 12 place in Aarhus 2019. That was an extremely hilly course where Jakob had a clear disadvantage to the East Africans due to his much higher weight.
I think many here (including THOUGHTSLEADER) will be surprised when Jakob runs his first competitive 10,000m/ 10 km. And "600m man" will retire in disgrace and with frustration as ozmaKappa apparently did after the 5000m final last year in Eugene.
Find the 10k quote and link it. I don’t believe it, as he’s said the 3K/2 mile may be his best if anything.
Yeah, let´s see if this Norwegian can find the quote. It was this one or one of the other Norwegians who recently stated that Jakob now says the 10000m is his strongest event.
But you are so stubborn because you for years have postulated that the 3000m was his sweet spot even though Jakob at the time said it was the 5000m.
If you listen carefully to the interview after the 3000m last sunday you will hear him say that the WRs are most difficult in the shorter races because his performances are based on his aerobic capacity (not exactly these words but that is the meaning of it).
It is also quite logical that the longest distances become his best events over time since he continuously is improving his aerobic capacity and since this capacity represents a bigger percentage of the total effort in longer distances than shorter ones so he will be relatively better on the longer distances as time goes by.
Jakob didn´t defeat Gressier last year. Gressier had "other priorities" for the end of 2022. But Jakob beat Gressier the year before in Ireland.
Last year he defeated Cairess and Crippa (who was a DNF in Ireland af having been in the 4 man front group for a while). Last year´s course in Torino was quite hilly.
I think I’ve pretty much have found it (well, not the exact mentioning of 10k as his current best distance, but very much implying -pretty sure he has said literally 10000m somewhere, but after gone through a lot I have now got a somewhat overdose of Jakob, although I like the guy), so check out the link below (the infamous post Worlds 5000m citius mag interview, where Jakob calls Kerr “the next guy”!). -from 2 min 55 sec Jakob says something like this: “5000m is obviously my best event… I’m more an aerobic guy than an anaerobic -the longer the distance is the better for me…” He also says that he thinks he can break the WR in the 5000m now (in this, or the Gault interview, etc, etc).
I think this interview, and a couple of others from the same couple of days, f.ex with Jonathan Gault, clearly shows that he knows the difference (of course he does) between track distances and half and full marathon, and that the two latter raise the need for specific preparation and training. But listening to him it also seems pretty obvious that he regards a 10k already is in his wheelhouse based on his current training. And although he never has claimed to be able to run 26.10 I see it as sort of a given him thinking he can break the 5k WR, and seeing himself as better the longer distance he is up against (with the exception of those needing specific preparation).
You guys are really stubborn on this point. He is saying vis a vis championship distances that 5,000 is his better event than 1500. The 3,000 in this context is irrelevant as you don’t race it at Worlds. The longer the distance sure you could generalize this but I read it as the less dependent on speed an event it is. Speed is not a limiting factor for Jakob once you go above the mile. I’m sure he is confident that he could run well in the 10,000. But I’d dispute that he really thinks it’s his best event just because in context when discussing the races he runs (1500-5000) he says the longer the better.
You guys are really stubborn on this point. He is saying vis a vis championship distances that 5,000 is his better event than 1500. The 3,000 in this context is irrelevant as you don’t race it at Worlds. The longer the distance sure you could generalize this but I read it as the less dependent on speed an event it is. Speed is not a limiting factor for Jakob once you go above the mile. I’m sure he is confident that he could run well in the 10,000. But I’d dispute that he really thinks it’s his best event just because in context when discussing the races he runs (1500-5000) he says the longer the better.
You don’t get it that there’s a reason why Jakob hasn’t a pr in the 10000m yet. It’s not because he is afraid to lose, neither because he thinks he’s worse there than in the 1500, 3000 or 5000m (on the contrary -re listen to what he says about being better the longer the distance), but because he won’t run the longest track event if it ruins his prioritiest 1500m… It’s the same as in not running the 3 or 5000m if they disturb (too much) his main event.
Jakob said in Worlds champ 2022 that he would have run the 10000m if he had been qualified, and the same in Euro’s the same year. And he had certainly planned to get the qualifier in the spring 2022, but he got sick..-Not a chance he would have participated in this long event if he thought he was worse there than in the shorter ones, and not a chance that he didn’t feel prepared (would surely not changed his training / prep, for fear of ruined 1500m).
Why doesn’t Jakob go for the triple in Paris? -Because it’s in between, and not because he doesn’t see it as his best event!
You have to take into account all the things that has been said (from our main character) about which distance he thinks his talent and current training favour the most -clearly the 10k (and maybe the half marathon later, with some adjustments and prep).
I have no agenda about what Jakob means or not pr se. It would be fine by me if he viewed 3k as his sweet spot, and only later would increase his mileage to go for the 5 / 10k and half marathon. But this is not how it is: He says he has peaked his mileage on 122miles / 195 km a week, and won’t enlarge it further (contrary to what f.ex Nordås says about his own plans). And Jakob clearly sees this training as sufficient for the three mentioned long events (well he adjusts something within the frame when he finds it necessary and smart…)
I’m interested in how Jakob Ingebrigsten thinks, trains and what he is planning for. But then I have to relate to everything he says, and in the larger context of what he says… I think you are missing some of this context. But what the heck -we don’t have to agree in everything!
You don’t get it that there’s a reason why Jakob hasn’t a pr in the 10000m yet. It’s not because he is afraid to lose, neither because he thinks he’s worse there than in the 1500, 3000 or 5000m (on the contrary -re listen to what he says about being better the longer the distance), but because he won’t run the longest track event if it ruins his prioritiest 1500m… It’s the same as in not running the 3 or 5000m if they disturb (too much) his main event.
Jakob said in Worlds champ 2022 that he would have run the 10000m if he had been qualified, and the same in Euro’s the same year. And he had certainly planned to get the qualifier in the spring 2022, but he got sick..-Not a chance he would have participated in this long event if he thought he was worse there than in the shorter ones, and not a chance that he didn’t feel prepared (would surely not changed his training / prep, for fear of ruined 1500m).
Why doesn’t Jakob go for the triple in Paris? -Because it’s in between, and not because he doesn’t see it as his best event!
You have to take into account all the things that has been said (from our main character) about which distance he thinks his talent and current training favour the most -clearly the 10k (and maybe the half marathon later, with some adjustments and prep).
I have no agenda about what Jakob means or not pr se. It would be fine by me if he viewed 3k as his sweet spot, and only later would increase his mileage to go for the 5 / 10k and half marathon. But this is not how it is: He says he has peaked his mileage on 122miles / 195 km a week, and won’t enlarge it further (contrary to what f.ex Nordås says about his own plans). And Jakob clearly sees this training as sufficient for the three mentioned long events (well he adjusts something within the frame when he finds it necessary and smart…)
I’m interested in how Jakob Ingebrigsten thinks, trains and what he is planning for. But then I have to relate to everything he says, and in the larger context of what he says… I think you are missing some of this context. But what the heck -we don’t have to agree in everything!
"Not a chance he would have participated in this long event if he thought he was worse there than in the shorter ones"
- I don't know why that would be the case. You think he'd be scared of racing a championship 10,000 knowing how much of a gap he has on his competition in a tactical 5,000? I sure don't. He'll race if he thinks he can win.
Also, there's also a difference between a Championship 10,000 (likely to feature 5-7,000m of dawdling) and setting a 10,000m World Record (a better test of your maximal abilities in the event) or racing World XC which is much harder from the gun and more grueling. There's also a difference between having to adjust your training/just plain being better-suited for an event. Jakob's base training is more mileage than what Bekele/Cheptegei did/do in their primes training for the 5,000 or 10,000. But that doesn't mean he is better-suited currently at the 10,000 than the 5,000 or 3,000. Nordas is an example of this running a huge volume but apparently being much better at the 1,500 than longer events. Marcin Lewandowski who ran more mileage in base training even while an 800m runner than Bernard Lagat is another example of it. Ultimately, I think where we'll agree to disagree is that I have no reason to believe Jakob believes 10,000 is his best event as opposed to an event he publicly states he could do well in down the road based on his aerobic training/base. His perceived weaknesses (speed) for me end at the mile, and they become a strength in the 3000m+. Feel free to disagree with me but strong as he is and given how much volume he does that does not guarantee in the 10,000, XC, HM and Marathon he will have the strength advantage over his competitors like he does with each and every 15000m competitor.
"Not a chance he would have participated in this long event if he thought he was worse there than in the shorter ones"
- I don't know why that would be the case. You think he'd be scared of racing a championship 10,000 knowing how much of a gap he has on his competition in a tactical 5,000? I sure don't. He'll race if he thinks he can win.
Also, there's also a difference between a Championship 10,000 (likely to feature 5-7,000m of dawdling) and setting a 10,000m World Record (a better test of your maximal abilities in the event) or racing World XC which is much harder from the gun and more grueling. There's also a difference between having to adjust your training/just plain being better-suited for an event. Jakob's base training is more mileage than what Bekele/Cheptegei did/do in their primes training for the 5,000 or 10,000. But that doesn't mean he is better-suited currently at the 10,000 than the 5,000 or 3,000. Nordas is an example of this running a huge volume but apparently being much better at the 1,500 than longer events. Marcin Lewandowski who ran more mileage in base training even while an 800m runner than Bernard Lagat is another example of it. Ultimately, I think where we'll agree to disagree is that I have no reason to believe Jakob believes 10,000 is his best event as opposed to an event he publicly states he could do well in down the road based on his aerobic training/base. His perceived weaknesses (speed) for me end at the mile, and they become a strength in the 3000m+. Feel free to disagree with me but strong as he is and given how much volume he does that does not guarantee in the 10,000, XC, HM and Marathon he will have the strength advantage over his competitors like he does with each and every 15000m competitor.
I will do my fair share to down-tune our disagreement because:
1. I agree in most of what you are writing in this last post.
2. Although I think I have given quite a good representation of Jakob’s sayings I also think it’s wrong of me to try to be a mediator of what he means. He can adjust his views as he pleases (which he has sometimes done, and I can also misinterpret or over do his points…)
3. When Jakob says that his goal is to beat all (the mentioned) WR’s (at least give it a try) I have no clue what so ever how this will turn out regarding the half- and full marathon.
4. I don’t know what Jakob’s sweet spot is, or will be. It can very well be your assumed 2k / 3k, but it can also be significantly longer. -I just don’t know. Saying that we may even underestimate his 800m speed, and he himself may be wrong in his assumptions of the 1500m / mile to be the hardest WR’s to break. I think he could’ve taken the mile in Pre (with longer pacing / less jet lag) and that he could have run 3.26.5 in Silesia on a better day (taken better advantage of the excellent pacing that day).
5. 2k / 3k may be Jakob’s best distances. But he may even be better in the 5k -we just don’t know, because although I think it’s fair to say he can’t be worse than 12.40 flat there simply isn’t proof of 12.34 range in his performances. But if I had to guess I would go for WR capacity in the 5k (based on his own estimates), but I wouldn’t bet my life on it -he has to run an all out time trail 5k to prove that he is better there than in the 2 mile…
6. The ten k / Worlds xc win in a flat course: I have no clue. In theory Jakob can have his sweet spot in the 10000m, or the right xc course, or even in the half marathon, but theory and practice isn’t the same. We just have to wait and see.
7. We know a lot of Jakob’s capacity, and there’s a lot we don’t know. This makes the whole thing exciting..!
Weight is a liability not only on the hills but every turn & dip where acceleration is required. He knows he would be nickel - dimed to death.
I agree. I just rewatched 2019 Aarhus junior men. Yeah, he obviously got shelled on the museum climb, but was also at a visible disadvantage on all the other smaller hills and up and down accelerations/changes of pace. I think he'd also be at disadvantage on things like the mud and water crossings. He knows it too - that's why he hasn't been back at World cross since.
Men U20 8km race at the World Cross Country Championships 2019 in Aarhus, DenmarkResults:1. Milkesa Mengesha (ETH) 23:522. Tadese Worku (ETH) 23:543. Oscar C...
You don’t get it that there’s a reason why Jakob hasn’t a pr in the 10000m yet. It’s not because he is afraid to lose, neither because he thinks he’s worse there than in the 1500, 3000 or 5000m (on the contrary -re listen to what he says about being better the longer the distance), but because he won’t run the longest track event if it ruins his prioritiest 1500m… It’s the same as in not running the 3 or 5000m if they disturb (too much) his main event.
Jakob said in Worlds champ 2022 that he would have run the 10000m if he had been qualified, and the same in Euro’s the same year. And he had certainly planned to get the qualifier in the spring 2022, but he got sick..-Not a chance he would have participated in this long event if he thought he was worse there than in the shorter ones, and not a chance that he didn’t feel prepared (would surely not changed his training / prep, for fear of ruined 1500m).
Why doesn’t Jakob go for the triple in Paris? -Because it’s in between, and not because he doesn’t see it as his best event!
You have to take into account all the things that has been said (from our main character) about which distance he thinks his talent and current training favour the most -clearly the 10k (and maybe the half marathon later, with some adjustments and prep).
I have no agenda about what Jakob means or not pr se. It would be fine by me if he viewed 3k as his sweet spot, and only later would increase his mileage to go for the 5 / 10k and half marathon. But this is not how it is: He says he has peaked his mileage on 122miles / 195 km a week, and won’t enlarge it further (contrary to what f.ex Nordås says about his own plans). And Jakob clearly sees this training as sufficient for the three mentioned long events (well he adjusts something within the frame when he finds it necessary and smart…)
I’m interested in how Jakob Ingebrigsten thinks, trains and what he is planning for. But then I have to relate to everything he says, and in the larger context of what he says… I think you are missing some of this context. But what the heck -we don’t have to agree in everything!
"Not a chance he would have participated in this long event if he thought he was worse there than in the shorter ones"
- I don't know why that would be the case. You think he'd be scared of racing a championship 10,000 knowing how much of a gap he has on his competition in a tactical 5,000? I sure don't. He'll race if he thinks he can win.
Also, there's also a difference between a Championship 10,000 (likely to feature 5-7,000m of dawdling) and setting a 10,000m World Record (a better test of your maximal abilities in the event) or racing World XC which is much harder from the gun and more grueling. There's also a difference between having to adjust your training/just plain being better-suited for an event. Jakob's base training is more mileage than what Bekele/Cheptegei did/do in their primes training for the 5,000 or 10,000. But that doesn't mean he is better-suited currently at the 10,000 than the 5,000 or 3,000. Nordas is an example of this running a huge volume but apparently being much better at the 1,500 than longer events. Marcin Lewandowski who ran more mileage in base training even while an 800m runner than Bernard Lagat is another example of it. Ultimately, I think where we'll agree to disagree is that I have no reason to believe Jakob believes 10,000 is his best event as opposed to an event he publicly states he could do well in down the road based on his aerobic training/base. His perceived weaknesses (speed) for me end at the mile, and they become a strength in the 3000m+. Feel free to disagree with me but strong as he is and given how much volume he does that does not guarantee in the 10,000, XC, HM and Marathon he will have the strength advantage over his competitors like he does with each and every 15000m competitor.
TL, I have translated the interview with Jakob from early in 2020 (just after the 2020 Olympics was postponed). As stated before I am not Norwegian but close enough to be able to read the language.
There is a link to the interview in JACD´s post 46, page 3 in this thread. I have translated questions and answers starting at minute 16:32, ending minute 17;43:
" Question: On which distance do you feel you have most potential in the longer term? ------------------------ Answer: Long term I think I have most potential in the HM to be honest. 21 km road run. I think I can do extremely well there. But it is possibly in the 5000m I in the short term has the best potential. But this won´t prohibit me from winning the Olympics or the WC in the 1500m. ----------------------- Question: It shouldn´t prohibit you, but why HM, how often have you tried it and why do you say that? --------------------------- Answer: I haven´t tried it, but it is based on the training I have done during the years since I started running. It is really very targeted towards HM in kind of training, mileage and perhaps kind of steps which I have developed over many years with running."
What do you say?
By the way: He has stated recently that he thinks he can break the 5000m WR now. I suppose you know that.
TL, I have translated the interview with Jakob from early in 2020 (just after the 2020 Olympics was postponed). As stated before I am not Norwegian but close enough to be able to read the language.
There is a link to the interview in JACD´s post 46, page 3 in this thread. I have translated questions and answers starting at minute 16:32, ending minute 17;43:
" Question: On which distance do you feel you have most potential in the longer term? ------------------------ Answer: Long term I think I have most potential in the HM to be honest. 21 km road run. I think I can do extremely well there. But it is possibly in the 5000m I in the short term has the best potential. But this won´t prohibit me from winning the Olympics or the WC in the 1500m. ----------------------- Question: It shouldn´t prohibit you, but why HM, how often have you tried it and why do you say that? --------------------------- Answer: I haven´t tried it, but it is based on the training I have done during the years since I started running. It is really very targeted towards HM in kind of training, mileage and perhaps kind of steps which I have developed over many years with running."
What do you say?
By the way: He has stated recently that he thinks he can break the 5000m WR now. I suppose you know that.
Yeah, to me I'm not arguing with his thesis at all from a 1,000 yard view (I probably screwed up that saying). In theory he does a lot of mileage (as much as most guys doing Half Marathons, just short of those doing the Full). He also does a lot of threshold work, which can be foundational for the Half. However, it would be foolish to not recognize he has very good speed (better than most HM specialists), and contrary to what he might've thought (in 2020) speed is not his problem in any event over the mile. For me, right now it is a bit of projection from his comments that go back 3 years to how he might view his training now, that the Half is really going to be his best event. Does he think he could scare 57 minutes in the Half or 26 minutes in the 10K? Beat Kiplimo by 15 seconds at World Cross? Because that's about the sort of performance he'd need to match what I think he could do in the 3K and possibly in the 5K. Sure, maybe this is the case and he just hasn't gotten to it yet. But Jakob like Faith K., I would find them capable of doing great things in the 10K+ but I guess I can't picture them being *better* than at 1500-5,000 where speed is not really a problem for them.
EDIT: I know the BroJos brought up Hassan and perhaps she is going to be the real deal in the marathon, but I'd be pretty surprised if it's not more like she's very good at it (and can win as others falter), as opposed to us seeing her run 2:13 anytime soon.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.