She and Schippers are both muscled - but then virtually all sprinters are now - and it isn't just the gym that does it. But what I find questionable is when women get serious muscle in the shoulders and arms - especially if they are otherwise slim. Only steroids can do that. She and Schippers are pretty big in that department. By contrast, Bol - who is the same height - has nothing like that shoulder and arm size. It isn't necessarily definitive of doping but given the nature of the sport I wouldn't be surprised.
Yet this trollish forum poster will not make similar accusations against Tuohy, who has an even more ridiculous build for her event, while he tries to shame her competition.
Tuohy is half the size of these Dutch women. Stupid comparison.
do steroids magically target particular body parts and proportionately increases the shoulders & arms?
While I don't think Klaver looks more likely a doper than any other female sprinter, the answer to this question is yes. Steroids do particularly effect the shoulders, including in men. They have more androgen receptors, something like that, is why.
I don't mind the shoulders because mine are still bigger. Klaver has an athletic but feminine physique, not like bodybuilders. Blows everyone away, this is near unanimous
Women - slim women - don't get big arms and shoulders without drugs. Bodybuilders have known that for decades.
In fact Klaver was a 200 runner first that moved up to the 400. She has an athletic build, plus her progression at 400 isn't anything that suggests steroids. She's 25 and is just breaking 50 within the last year. And if you see her in street gear she's simply looks like a very fit woman.
Her performances aren't what make me question her. But what she looks like in street gear is irrelevant. You could see a steroidal body-builder in such gear and not pick it.
However she may not stand out to many of you because drugs are the norm in female sprints and have been so for years.
She and Schippers are both muscled - but then virtually all sprinters are now - and it isn't just the gym that does it. But what I find questionable is when women get serious muscle in the shoulders and arms - especially if they are otherwise slim. Only steroids can do that. She and Schippers are pretty big in that department. By contrast, Bol - who is the same height - has nothing like that shoulder and arm size. It isn't necessarily definitive of doping but given the nature of the sport I wouldn't be surprised.
"Only steroids can give women serious muscles in the shoulders and arms"?? I've never heard of such (misogynistic) nonsense in my life LOL. What, do steroids magically target particular body parts and proportionately increases the shoulders & arms?
Do not compare Klaver - who has been weightlifting since she was a junior - to Bol, who has not. Bol only started doing basic moves like cleans when she moved to the Meuwly group; Klaver was doing them years before. In fact, she is the Queen of Cleans! Klaver has always been in athletics (as a 100/200 sprinter) whereas Bol did judo and speedskating in her youth.
And Schippers & Klaver actually have quite different body types; Schippers, whilst muscular, is more 'fleshy' and 'heavier' with a more rectangular body. Klaver is more 'conditioned' and 'athletic' and nearly 2 inches taller than Schippers.
Defenders of doping will always find reasons to deny it. I don't expect otherwise.
Yet this trollish forum poster will not make similar accusations against Tuohy, who has an even more ridiculous build for her event, while he tries to shame her competition.
No that is Astro - but these two (amongst others) have a similar cynical agenda. I prefer to let the official doping agencies monitor the guilt of athletes (and they sometimes make mistakes) just as with most justice systems. But these guys seem to know better, although I don't know why? I guess they just find it easier to accuse others with no actual proof than actually get involved in the sport in some concrete way (like bothering to coach athletes to a high level). Perhaps if they were more involved rather than casting aspersions from their basements, they might have a different perspective. But then anyone who doesn't see it their way is just a doping apologist.
The official doping agencies catch very few who are doping - only 1% of tests are positive and yet estimates of actual doping range from a conservative 10% of championship athletes to at least 1 in 2. That's why speculation about possible doping is valid.
It is also the case that just as an informed eye can perceive talent so can possible doping be observed. Half of the threads on this site involve such suspicions.
In fact Klaver was a 200 runner first that moved up to the 400. She has an athletic build, plus her progression at 400 isn't anything that suggests steroids. She's 25 and is just breaking 50 within the last year. And if you see her in street gear she's simply looks like a very fit woman.
Her performances aren't what make me question her. But what she looks like in street gear is irrelevant. You could see a steroidal body-builder in such gear and not pick it.
However she may not stand out to many of you because drugs are the norm in female sprints and have been so for years.
Fake news, I know women at the gym who have physiques like Klaver (not as tall however) and they're not users. People have different body types that respond to specific training. I already pointed out how Bol and Klaver both do power cleans yet Klaver is built much differently. If K;aver wasn't six foot this thread wouldn't exist.
I believe you're envious of her physique and strength.
Her performances aren't what make me question her. But what she looks like in street gear is irrelevant. You could see a steroidal body-builder in such gear and not pick it.
However she may not stand out to many of you because drugs are the norm in female sprints and have been so for years.
Fake news, I know women at the gym who have physiques like Klaver (not as tall however) and they're not users. People have different body types that respond to specific training. I already pointed out how Bol and Klaver both do power cleans yet Klaver is built much differently. If K;aver wasn't six foot this thread wouldn't exist.
I believe you're envious of her physique and strength.
Also, what about Ewa Swoboda? She's just as put together as Klaver. Or are you going to baselessly accuse her too?
Defenders of doping will always find reasons to deny it. I don't expect otherwise.
Was that a reference to me? You don't know me, only my (temporary) username on here. But I can tell you that I am in no way a defender of doping at all, and on TFN forum I am vehemently against doping.
But my approach is different to yours. Whilst I believe doping is endemic in our sport, I also believe that many athletes are clean. I try not to make generalisations too, until I know more about an athlete and their training, their coach, their whole set up.
As someone who has followed Klaver's career since she was 18 back in 2017, who has met & interviewed her & her coach, I am confident that she is clean. She started a weight training programme way before she was 20 (unlike Bol) and as I said, it is her favourite training, to the point that in the past she over trained in the gym and under trained on the track. Some times, an athlete is just 'lucky', physiologically. Just as some are naturally faster than others, some are naturally stronger, or built differently. That's human biology for you!
Her performances aren't what make me question her. But what she looks like in street gear is irrelevant. You could see a steroidal body-builder in such gear and not pick it.
However she may not stand out to many of you because drugs are the norm in female sprints and have been so for years.
Fake news, I know women at the gym who have physiques like Klaver (not as tall however) and they're not users. People have different body types that respond to specific training. I already pointed out how Bol and Klaver both do power cleans yet Klaver is built much differently. If K;aver wasn't six foot this thread wouldn't exist.
I believe you're envious of her physique and strength.
Your last comment demonstrates how dumb are your prior comments. You won't know if women in the gym aren't using - they are - because they wouldn't tell you if they were.
Defenders of doping will always find reasons to deny it. I don't expect otherwise.
Was that a reference to me? You don't know me, only my (temporary) username on here. But I can tell you that I am in no way a defender of doping at all, and on TFN forum I am vehemently against doping.
But my approach is different to yours. Whilst I believe doping is endemic in our sport, I also believe that many athletes are clean. I try not to make generalisations too, until I know more about an athlete and their training, their coach, their whole set up.
As someone who has followed Klaver's career since she was 18 back in 2017, who has met & interviewed her & her coach, I am confident that she is clean. She started a weight training programme way before she was 20 (unlike Bol) and as I said, it is her favourite training, to the point that in the past she over trained in the gym and under trained on the track. Some times, an athlete is just 'lucky', physiologically. Just as some are naturally faster than others, some are naturally stronger, or built differently. That's human biology for you!
Your personal defence of Klaver isn't persuasive because you can't know that an athlete isn't doping.
Drugs have changed "human biology" and are throughout the sport - and especially the sprints. Read about the Seoul men's 100m '88 final - called "the dirtiest race in history". Because a lot of women sprinters will be using drugs we will be used to seeing muscular physiques. But, to my view, Klaver's upper body - shoulders and arms - are conspicuously developed. The contrast in that respect with Bol, at the same height, is quite striking.
Fake news, I know women at the gym who have physiques like Klaver (not as tall however) and they're not users. People have different body types that respond to specific training. I already pointed out how Bol and Klaver both do power cleans yet Klaver is built much differently. If K;aver wasn't six foot this thread wouldn't exist.
I believe you're envious of her physique and strength.
Your last comment demonstrates how dumb are your prior comments. You won't know if women in the gym aren't using - they are - because they wouldn't tell you if they were.
That's stupid logic from a moron. Because they don't come up and tell you unsolicited that they don't use that means they are? These are just women who workout before they go to work in the morning or come in after work. No one's paying them and they likely don't have the connections to get anything...it is against the law to possess steroids without a prescription, you do understand that much don't you, Cletus?
Your personal defence of Klaver isn't persuasive because you can't know that an athlete isn't doping.
Drugs have changed "human biology" and are throughout the sport - and especially the sprints. Read about the Seoul men's 100m '88 final - called "the dirtiest race in history". Because a lot of women sprinters will be using drugs we will be used to seeing muscular physiques. But, to my view, Klaver's upper body - shoulders and arms - are conspicuously developed. The contrast in that respect with Bol, at the same height, is quite striking.
You do realise that if you weight train regularly, you can get bigger muscles, right? That with the right exercises and diet, you muscles can develop, and you can lose body weight with the right nutrition, yes? You don't need to take a pill or rub a cream to do this.
And have you ever actually met her in person and stood next to her? Whilst she is extremely tall, she is not actually that muscular! It's conditioning. The TV screen makes her look much bigger than she is in real life, as it does with all the athletes. Because of her height, and long neck, it's accentuated.
Was that a reference to me? You don't know me, only my (temporary) username on here. But I can tell you that I am in no way a defender of doping at all, and on TFN forum I am vehemently against doping.
But my approach is different to yours. Whilst I believe doping is endemic in our sport, I also believe that many athletes are clean. I try not to make generalisations too, until I know more about an athlete and their training, their coach, their whole set up.
As someone who has followed Klaver's career since she was 18 back in 2017, who has met & interviewed her & her coach, I am confident that she is clean. She started a weight training programme way before she was 20 (unlike Bol) and as I said, it is her favourite training, to the point that in the past she over trained in the gym and under trained on the track. Some times, an athlete is just 'lucky', physiologically. Just as some are naturally faster than others, some are naturally stronger, or built differently. That's human biology for you!
Your personal defence of Klaver isn't persuasive because you can't know that an athlete isn't doping.
Drugs have changed "human biology" and are throughout the sport - and especially the sprints. Read about the Seoul men's 100m '88 final - called "the dirtiest race in history". Because a lot of women sprinters will be using drugs we will be used to seeing muscular physiques. But, to my view, Klaver's upper body - shoulders and arms - are conspicuously developed. The contrast in that respect with Bol, at the same height, is quite striking.
Everything else aside you so know there is something called an Ectomorph and Endomorph?
It's why someone like Klaver and Bol could both theoretically be clean and look totally different...
Fake news, I know women at the gym who have physiques like Klaver (not as tall however) and they're not users. People have different body types that respond to specific training. I already pointed out how Bol and Klaver both do power cleans yet Klaver is built much differently. If K;aver wasn't six foot this thread wouldn't exist.
I believe you're envious of her physique and strength.
Also, what about Ewa Swoboda? She's just as put together as Klaver. Or are you going to baselessly accuse her too?
Your personal defence of Klaver isn't persuasive because you can't know that an athlete isn't doping.
Drugs have changed "human biology" and are throughout the sport - and especially the sprints. Read about the Seoul men's 100m '88 final - called "the dirtiest race in history". Because a lot of women sprinters will be using drugs we will be used to seeing muscular physiques. But, to my view, Klaver's upper body - shoulders and arms - are conspicuously developed. The contrast in that respect with Bol, at the same height, is quite striking.
Everything else aside you so know there is something called an Ectomorph and Endomorph?
It's why someone like Klaver and Bol could both theoretically be clean and look totally different...
Neither is an ectomorph. That is Kiprop and a bunch of Kenyan marathon runners.
Your last comment demonstrates how dumb are your prior comments. You won't know if women in the gym aren't using - they are - because they wouldn't tell you if they were.
That's stupid logic from a moron. Because they don't come up and tell you unsolicited that they don't use that means they are? These are just women who workout before they go to work in the morning or come in after work. No one's paying them and they likely don't have the connections to get anything...it is against the law to possess steroids without a prescription, you do understand that much don't you, Cletus?
You are witless. I didn't say that because women don't tell me they aren't doping that means they are. You aren't equipped to follow an argument. But you are the moron who claims to know for a fact they aren't using, when there are plenty of women at the gym (and of course guys) who will be - especially if they are into bodybuilding or are otherwise serious athletes. We know there are many athletes who dope and many of them will work out at the gym or they get no benefit from their doping.
Your personal defence of Klaver isn't persuasive because you can't know that an athlete isn't doping.
Drugs have changed "human biology" and are throughout the sport - and especially the sprints. Read about the Seoul men's 100m '88 final - called "the dirtiest race in history". Because a lot of women sprinters will be using drugs we will be used to seeing muscular physiques. But, to my view, Klaver's upper body - shoulders and arms - are conspicuously developed. The contrast in that respect with Bol, at the same height, is quite striking.
You do realise that if you weight train regularly, you can get bigger muscles, right? That with the right exercises and diet, you muscles can develop, and you can lose body weight with the right nutrition, yes? You don't need to take a pill or rub a cream to do this.
And have you ever actually met her in person and stood next to her? Whilst she is extremely tall, she is not actually that muscular! It's conditioning. The TV screen makes her look much bigger than she is in real life, as it does with all the athletes. Because of her height, and long neck, it's accentuated.
Weight-training doesn't by itself develop big upper body muscles in women - but with drugs they can develop such muscles - and they do. This has been observed with women's bodybuilding since the early '80's. Before then they looked more like ballet dancers - toned and wiry but not big. We have since gotten use to seeing sizeable trapezius muscles, "delts", triceps, biceps and "lats" on female athletes. That is what drugs have done. What you think is normal or unexceptional is most likely the product of doping.
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