Tirunesh Dibaba has as many world track championships as Kipyegon and Hassan combined.
Yeah NEITHER one is the GOAT. Plus Tirunesh has 5 World Cross Country Golds. She has a better argument for GOAT than they do.
Dibaba was an incredible runner, but the times and finishing splits these days are just so much faster than when she was running. It's the same logic as calling Mo Farah the GOAT, which pretty much nobody does with a straight face -- except that I really might pick Farah to win a tactical race of all the greats.
I think it's been lost how much better the current generation of female distance runners is than any generation before them.
If you think Dibaba is the GOAT, answer this: if prime Kipyegon, Hassan, Tsegay, Gidey, and Dibaba all lined up for a championship 5k or 10k wearing the same shoes, would you really pick Dibaba over the rest? If so, why didn't she run that level of race during her actual career? And if not, what's the justification for choosing someone as GOAT who you believe would be beaten by other runners?
What are you talking about? Dibaba’s kick was devastating. She would regularly close out 5k and 10k races with a 57-58 final lap. Her 14:11 5K pre-super shoes still makes her third fastest all time. Without any hesitation, I would absolutely pick prime Dibaba in a championship 5k or 10k over any of today’s greats if they were all training and racing in the same shoes.
I think this question will be easier to answer after their road running careers have played out. Kipyegon has made no secret of her marathon aspirations and Hassan has already won London in her own unique style. At the moment Kipyegon is the single track event GOAT and Hassan is the same in terms of range and performance at a single championships (Doha). Kipyegon turned heads with her 5000m record in Paris, but she required the next fastest athlete over the distance to metronomically pace her - nobody else on earth could have fulfilled that role. If she wins the 5k at Budapest then she makes her case stronger, but having only run one (spectacular) 5k it’s too early to tell. my thoughts are that Kipyegon will be a better road runner than Hassan as she’s smaller, lighter and has a much more efficient technique. - The one I think may retire with best road record of all time however is Gidey. She was born to make mindblowing inroads into the half/marathon
This message board has a lot of influence on elite runners, high school coaches and college coaches. I hope this message board does not influence Faith Kipyegon to move up to 5000m.
Faith K has an opportunity to do what no one has done, win three Olympic 1500m gold medals. If Faith wins three Olympic 1500m gold medals, S Hassan possibly earning medals in 5000m & 10000m races cannot top three 1500m Olympic gold medals.
Reminder. Five-thousand meters was added for over the hill 1500m runners and 1500m runners with no kick to Olympic schedule; 10000m was added for almost Marathoners to Olympic schedule. Medals in 5000m & 10000m events are not as important as 1500m Olympic gold medals.
This message board has a lot of influence on elite runners, high school coaches and college coaches. I hope this message board does not influence Faith Kipyegon to move up to 5000m.
Faith K has an opportunity to do what no one has done, win three Olympic 1500m gold medals. If Faith wins three Olympic 1500m gold medals, S Hassan possibly earning medals in 5000m & 10000m races cannot top three 1500m Olympic gold medals.
Reminder. Five-thousand meters was added for over the hill 1500m runners and 1500m runners with no kick to Olympic schedule; 10000m was added for almost Marathoners to Olympic schedule. Medals in 5000m & 10000m events are not as important as 1500m Olympic gold medals.
I think this type of discuss is very premature given their ages and the fact they are both in the prime of their careers / competing at the highest level. This would be like arguing whether Larry Bird or Magic Johnson was the goat in 1985 when they both won several more MVPs, championships and other accolades in the coming years. Or arguing about Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in the middle of their careers. Similarly look at Michael Johnson or Carl Lewis's respective performances after the 1988 and 1996 Olympics. Lewis in particular went on to set PRs in the 100M and Long jump in 1991 after he turned 30 and later won golds in the 1992 and 1996 olympics and 1991 world championships.
I would say it's basically even between the two of them. Yes, Kipyegon dominates the champtionship head-to-head, but that's exclusively over 1500m. No one in their right mind would deny that Kipyegon is the 1500m GOAT on the women's side, but overall is a different question. Remember how mind-boggling a 1500/10k double gold is. To me, that's about half way between the 1500/5k/10k triple and the 1500/5k double or 5k/10k double because of the versatility required is the same, even if tripling is that much harder because of the sheer volume of racing. I'd say it's even because it's also crazy to be the WR holder for 1500 and 5k. It's one thing for a 1500 runner to win a tactical 5k final (El G), but to set the WR in both is nuts.
Are we really going to say that Kipyegon's 1500 gold in 2021 is more impressive than Hassan's 10k Gold, 5k Gold, 1500 bronze, just because she had the win head-to-head? Especially given that Hassan beat the 10k and then 5k WR holder in the 10.
If Kipyegon beats Hassan and wins the 5000, then head to head will matter more, but right now that's only an argument for Kipyegon in the 1500, not overall.
By way of comparison, El G was 2-0 against Bekele in championship races and both of those were the 5k, which is one of Bekele's core events as opposed to racing up for El G. Bekele was still young, and hadn't set the 5k record yet, and I don't think 2004 El G beats 2008 Bekele in the 5k, but still that almost seems like a stronger argument, but not one anyone would make around here.
Who comes out on top in a GOAT conversation? Kipyegon just obliterated Hassan's mile record by 5 seconds. She also holds the 1500/5k records. Hassan has run some of the most incredible championships ever, the 2019 double and the 2021 triple being standouts. She also has by far the best range of any woman ever, having both run 1:56 and winning the deepest London Marathon in history in her debut.
I'm taking Hassan because she's like Kipchoge if he was better at track. 2 golds and a bronze at the same Olympics, and that WC double of 3:51/3:59 last 1500 in the 10k) is crazier to me than Kipyegon running 3:49.
In light of what we just saw, I'm pretty confident Hassan > Kipyegon. We're incredibly lucky to be able to witness 2 of the greatest women ever at their peaks at the same time.
What are you talking about? Dibaba’s kick was devastating. She would regularly close out 5k and 10k races with a 57-58 final lap. Her 14:11 5K pre-super shoes still makes her third fastest all time. Without any hesitation, I would absolutely pick prime Dibaba in a championship 5k or 10k over any of today’s greats if they were all training and racing in the same shoes.
when did dibaba run a 57 second last lap in a 5k? and pls don't mention a 5k that was slow than 15 mins...
Happy to oblige. Check out Dibaba’s 2006 season for some examples. Here are some tidbits from the then-IAAF’s 2006 Golden League review:
Oslo, Norway “East Africans also monopolized a great in-depth women's 5000m with the first nine in a race in which Tirunesh Dibaba covered the last lap in under 58 sec to win in a personal best time over her sister Ejegayehu (14:33.52)”
Saint-Denis (Paris), France “Tirunesh Dibaba (14:54.24 5000m) who needed to summon a spectacular 57 sec last lap to get the better of arch-rival Meseret Defar, the new World record holder.”
Rome, Italy “Tirunesh Dibaba's sub-58 sec last lap in the 5000m (14:52.37) proved too fierce for Meseret Defar.”
Mel Watman of "Athletics International" reviews the highlights of the six IAAF Golden League meetings which were part of the inaugural World Athletics Tour in 2006, the big winners being Asafa Powell (with another World recor...
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