Why does this entire board think that the 2 year sabbatical is an advantage for BYU?

maybe/probably there are advantages to successive generations being born, growing up, and living at altitude, but a couple hundred years (absolute max, if your family was among the first Mormons) isn't nearly enough time for Mormons as an insular group to have developed distinct genetic traits from their English-American 3rd-5th cousins

Ralph Mann. He won 3 NCAA titles in the 400H, set a world record, and was an Olympic silver medalist.

Paul Cummings (1-mile). Also 1984 olympic 10k trials winner and former 1/2 marathon world record holder.

Those two come to mind. There may be more.

Well, wr know it isn't age and that is the point. But if you want to explore it, the men and women live similar lifestyles in terms of diet and sleep and drugs and elevation and worship. And both have about the best coachbl in the NCAA.

Islam loves you regardless ❤️

The late Paul Cummings, although LDS, never served a mission. I don't believe he won a national championship as a freshman.

worldathletics.org

The tragic end of Paul Cumnmings and Jacques Boxberger | NEWS | World Athletics

There were many parallels in the lives of Paul CVummings, US Olympian, and French distance star Jacques Boxberger. Bith met a tragic end in the past month

Link:worldathletics.org/news/news/the-tragi...

Paul Cummings drowned; Jacki Boxberger killed by an elephant.

RIP both fine milers.

Reading this thread out of curiosity; not much of an agenda. I'm not the one who posted the theory below a few days ago, but perhaps the answer to the quoted posters question is:

A lifestyle devoid of performance-detracting drugs and big on sleep and spirituality.

I believe that's how posters from earlier would answer this poster's question. Reading that opinion on previous pages I think there could be a lot to it. And altitude. Different coaches M&W, true. But the same lifestyles and altitude - both the altitude of BYU and where many of them were born and raised. I agree that it is not solely Eyestone's genius any more than CU Boulder or NAU's successes are solely due to their iconic coaches.

I know several on here have postulated on why there seems to be a strong contingency of elite runners among the pool of Latter-day Saint athletes. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as a BYU alum, I will share a few of my thoughts on why that may be. When I grew up in the Central Coast of California, every year at state divisionals we would run against the same teams from Southern California and they were mostly from north of Los Angeles and southern part of Orange County. These were mostly middle class to upper middle class areas. I think most would agree that in the US the stock of elite runners generally come from such demographics, not from poorer inner-city nor heavily wealthy areas. Think Newbury Park (north of LA). It is an upper middle class area and, interestingly, when I later went to BYU, I learned that most of the other BYU students from California happened to be from north of LA and southern Orange County, the same areas that produce strong high school distance running programs. I even trained at BYU with a Newbury Park grad that was a sub 4:10 miler. What I glean from this is that BYU is able to recruit some elite LDS runners for the same reasons that many elite runners come from similar demographics. Generally, educated Latter-day Saints will gravitate to middle to upper middle class suburban neighborhoods where they can afford to buy larger homes for their larger families and where the schools are generally better. It should be noted that the elite runners come from a sub-culture within the LDS community. Generally, when I have lived in suburban middle class neighborhoods, my fellow LDS members in those areas have interest in activities such as skiing, sports, backpacking, and other recreational activities. The short time that I have lived in inner-city areas, I found little in common with the other members (I am not too much in cosplay or Dungeons and Dragons!). Prestigious universities such as Stanford and Harvard produce great distance running programs in large part because it is a sport that - for reasons worth its own separate discussion - draws the interest of those who are also academically inclined and driven. While BYU is not as prestigious as a university, it draws some of the brightest LDS members who want to not only have a great academic experience but also a opportunity to fellowship with others of our faith and, of course, more opportunities to meet the future spouse (the kid in the candy store scenario!). There may be other genetic reasons for strong distance runners among Latter-day Saints as others have mentioned, but I beleve that much of it is attributed to a sub-set of demographics that are similar to other such demographics where strong runners hail from. It just happens to be more concentrated among this particular LDS demographic, most of whom go to BYU. Okay, now I need to get back to helping my wife make the green jello salad.

As someone who actually knows LDS athletes that have done their missions, then competed, it’s really not some magical advantage they have. Missionaries only get 30 minutes a day for nonmission work, if they’re lucky. I know some that would maybe get a half day a week. In that time, they have to decide between, talking to family, washing clothes, grocery shopping, exercising, etc…. The majority of them don’t have weight rooms or stuff like that. When they come back from their mission into college, it’s a bit of a gamble, on whether or not they’ll be in shape enough to compete. You have to remember, these folks are extremely dedicated to their mission when they leave. They’re young men and women, that are leaving their families, not having contact with them for 2 years, except on a phone. None of them are doing this thinking they’ll destroy the competition when they get back. That’s the least of their concerns.

I get that the Mormons on here don't want to agree that a mission is beneficial to a BYU runner but lets not pretend that a mission is necessarily a detriment to the athlete's future development. It isn't like they off for two years due to a disease or a car accident or anything. If anything, they walk and ride their bike all day long. They don't over eat. For taking two years off from running they are in a good place to regain their fitness. And they still have plenty of years to run at a high level.

Don't forget that they just about all take a redshirt year and a medical redshirt year. They leave high school older than normal as well. No wonder they have a team full of 23 year old freshmen.

It seems that the only group taking advantage of this bizarre loophole is the mormons. Anyone know of any other examples? The NCAA needs to eliminate the mission exemption as discriminatory bias in favor of BYU. No one else seems to use it.

If BYU wants them to go on their trips, have them do it after all of their eligibility is over. Sure, they claim it is for "religious and lifestyle" reasons why they do it when they do. But for the few athletes involved, they should make an exception and move the trips back to ENSURE fairness. It isn't like they are lacking in examples of bowing to pressure to at least give the appearance of civility. There is the "prophesy" that suddenly blacks can be elders after their religious tax exemption was challenged by the Department of Justice. Also, they publicly disavowed polygamy even though it is still widespread.

For the small number of people affected it is worth the inconvenience of taking the trips AFTER eligibility ends. That would get rid of all this animosity, probably rightfully earned, towards 25 year olds racing 17 and 18 year olds and the seemingly never ending college careers of these BYU guys.

As far as why BYU is successful, aside from having mature adults competing against teenagers, there are other advantages. They go to a pretty easy school, very little academic pressure. A good chunk of their courses are required "religion and theology." These guys have been basically studying this same subject for nearly twenty years already. And when they have eight years or so to complete the other courses required for their major as opposed to four at a normal school - well..... Also, their social life is very insulated. Their biggest stress is finding someone at the ice cream social willing to marry them. Tuition is practically a non factor, so even with a designated number of scholarships they can load up on people who will go there because it is pretty much free. As for the scholarship limit, it must be a nightmare for the NCAA to track compliance with the myriad redshirts, medical redshirts, mission trips, etc..

Don’t over eat? That depends on where they go. I definitely overate on my mission because everyone insisted on feeding us. My weight yo-yo’d between putting on 20lbs and going down 20lbs with the latest parasite.

One of my kids is on a mission and is a d1 runner. He is not running, but he is doing some core work and they go on hikes a couple times a month on Mondays. He hopes to run 3x a week the last few months of his mission, but that will depend on who his companion happens to be. Some would be cool with it, some wouldn’t. He’s had a car the whole time so he doesn’t walk or bike anywhere. The coach’s expectation is that the year after the mission won’t be competitive, so knowing they have a whole year to get in shape takes the pressure off trying to be in shape on a mission.

Of his friends who are collegiate runners over the last year or two, only one has managed to find time to run regularly. That means 3-4 mile runs, not 60mpw.

Finally. A reasoned and cogent response.

Take your missions after you are done competing in college. Or lose the two years. Simple as that. Quit with all the tawdry little excuses.

Yeah, the poor NCAA. Feel so bad for them having to keep track of 5 years of eligibility, with compliance directors on every campus.
Maybe play fair can set up a support group for NCAA admins who have to keep track of something so complicated.
You’re close to finally scraping the bottom of the barrel. Points for something original though. Normally it’s all the other worn out excuses(which you also happened to reference). Good job.

It isn't complicated at a normal honest school. But, 5 years of eligibility spread out over 10 years of coming and going and redshirt this redshirt that, keeping track of a few thousand athletes over all the sports not knowing who is where when and who is on scholarship at any given time. Nightmare for anyone trying to be honest, probably not so bad for the school compliance officer who takes his marching orders from the bishop.

The only excuses I've seen are about how it is completely fair for 22 and 23 year old freshmen to compete against 17 and 18 year olds.

Do the missions after college or lose those years. Solution for everybody.

2 yrs = 4 to 6 yr advantage? No wonder you think compliance tracking would be like nuclear engineering.

Oh, so now BYU’s not a normal, honest school, haha.

Never change age complainers.