AW has an interesting article out on the WR and how ridiculous Kratochvílová’s double at Worlds was that year:
Trickiest of all was Tuesday August 9 when she won her 400m semi-final in 51.08 and the 800m final in 1:54.68 just 35 minutes later, although AW’s coverage at the time suggests there was as little as 24 minutes between her leaving the track after the 400m and returning for the 800m. Then, the following day, she passed 200m in 23.2 before clocking 47.99 in the 400m final to beat Koch’s world record of 48.16.
Was Oral Turinabol used in the Czech Republic? My impression was that it was used exclusively by East German athletes as part of their secret doping program.
It IS a very effective and ingenious drug; it's essentially Dianabol modified in such a way that water retention is negligible, making it ideal for use by track athletes and others seeking to maximize strength-to-weight ratio.
It's got to be the most potent anabolic agent for female athletes ever known.
You're right - very similar to Dianabol (D-bol was popular with the golden era bodybuilders & strength athletes), but Turinabol doesn't aromatize. Turinabol also has a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio than D-bol. Of course, as an oral agent it is hepatotoxic even in smaller dosages.
As I mentioned, Turinabol is extremely popular with female athletes. Recall the 2012 Olympics where the Russian gold medalists in the 400, 400 hurdles & steeplechase (Zaripova, Krivoshapka, antyulh) all tested positive for Turinabol in those later re-testing of the samples.
Crazy success with this one single anabolic agent.
The main thing was that they had not identified for testing and they controlled the clear out rate until they got second generation metabolites to prosecute on.
Easy for everyone to poke fun at Jarmila's physique - as long as you avoid the fact that Olizarenko was 0.15s slower with a totally different build and broke the WR by a much bigger margin. And others before by even more including a West German and an Australian.
Here is Nadezhda Olizarenko's WR 1:53.43 from her gold medal performance in Moscow in 1980. Silver medalist Olga Mineyeva's time of 1:54.81 was the 2nd fastest ever at the time and remains #9 all-time.
1980 Moscow Olympics women's 800m Final HD athletics world record atletica leggera atletismo olimpiada olympic games ОлимпиадаSunday July 27, 1980Women's 800...
Other than running 1:54.01, is there a reason to believe Pamela Jelimo had male levels of testosterone?
Yes. An transgender/DSD expert has told me they believe wholeheartedly she was DSD. For years people have claimed on the forums here letsrun that she has given birth as articles often talk about her kids. I wrote the expert about that in 2017 and the expert replied, "I am 99% certain that Jelimo is intersex and never gave birth to a baby. It is actually possible to be intersex and give birth, but if one has an XY DSD - and it is this subset of intersex conditions that are at that root of the sports issues - then one will not be born with internal female organs, and hence cannot give birth."
I have Empathy for The DSD Athletes, They actually have an Extremely Rare Physical Condition That gives them an Advantage in Women's Sports (Semenya born without A Penis and The Doctors and Her TRULY believed she is a Girl/Female/Women Etc. If Female they have an advantage in Woman's Sports, But a HUGE Disadvantage in many Things Example If Semenya, Grineer Etc was Straight and wanted to Meet a Man Their Voice Alone would make it extremely difficult as they sound like A Man when they Talk.
They are NOT Cheating at least not on Purpose like The UPENN Male Swimmer who won The Women's NCAA (How can he look himself in the Mirror? and How can The UPENN Swim Coach allow him on the Women's Team I Doubt Vince Lombardi when he said Winning isn't Everything, it is the Only Thing meant doing that) or the New Zealand Weightlifter who was on The Men's New Zealand Team, and Then decided to Compete as a Woman.
If they are going to let Men Compete as Women, how can they justify Banning DSD's?
Easy for everyone to poke fun at Jarmila's physique - as long as you avoid the fact that Olizarenko was 0.15s slower with a totally different build and broke the WR by a much bigger margin. And others before by even more including a West German and an Australian.
Here is Nadezhda Olizarenko's WR 1:53.43 from her gold medal performance in Moscow in 1980. Silver medalist Olga Mineyeva's time of 1:54.81 was the 2nd fastest ever at the time and remains #9 all-time.
Interesting that the swimming women’s DDR records of the 80’s have been beaten by many.
World Aquatics and fans of the sport of swimming are lucky that there was far more room for improvement in swimming technique, training, and technology since the 1980s. Swimmers are only starting to approach the kind of flattening of world record improvement curves that happened in running many decades ago. If today's female swimmers were able to dope to the level of East German swimmers of the 80's their records would live forever; the way that the shot put record will.
The solution is that world athletics needs to someday have a reset on the record books in select events where post drug testing regime records are viewed as the true record, while older obviously doped records are relegated to a historical status similar to unverified newspaper accounts of running times recorded by mechanical clock at closed events from the 1800's.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Spelling
"At present anabolic steroids are applied in all Olympic sporting events, with the exception of sailing and gymnastics (female)2 , … and by all national teams. The application takes place according to approved basic plans, in which special situations of individual athletes are also considered. The positive value of anabolic steroids for the development of a top performance is undoubted. Here are a few examples… Performances could be improved with the support of these drugs within four years as follows: Shot-put (men) 2.5–4 m; Shot-put (women) 4.5–5 m; Discus throw (men) 10–12 m; Discus throw (women) 11–20 m; Hammer throw 6–10 m; Javelin throw (women) 8–15 m; 400 m (women) 4–5 sec; 800 m (women) 5–10 sec; 1500 m (women) 7–10 sec… "
No one knows what drugs jarmila took.She was rumoured to be on dianabol and stromba,but she probably took whole cocktails.She looked to be on much larger doses than the east germans.Apparently even the east germans laughed at how masculine she looked.
I can appreciate all the accusations of her doping. That said, she was so talented and an absolute joy to watch. Despite the criticisms of herself an Koch, they are 2 of the all time greats and their talent cannot be overlooked.
I always feel the same after watching this kind of video. Sad for the poor athletes who were clean, because they got shafted. Sad for the cheating athletes of that era who were a cog in the communist machine.
She also ran 21.97 for 200m. I wonder how many of the male finalists from the 1983 world championships 800m could run 200m noticeably faster than that. The 400-800 guys could, but the 800-1500 guys would have difficulty. Imagine a guy who could squeak under 20 seconds for 200m lining up in the 800m and then dusting everybody.
Oh man, this really puts it into perspective. 21.97 is just disgusting for a female 800 runner. It's just so fast. These there aren't even that many 400 runners running that fast.
That type of speed may be needed for a man to ever go under 1:40 though. Probably in the realm of high 43 and 3:29.
How about the 6th Amendment: innocent until proven guilty? If you have no proof, then I guess there is absolutely no reason to speculate.
Athletes now have better shoes, better tracks, wavelight technology, better training and regeneration. That should and could be enough to better a WR.
I’ll give you better shoes, better tracks, wavelight technology. But, you have absolutely no proof of better training and regeneration.
Yeah this is an interesting point given that most of the outstanding Ethiopian runners - most especially the female ones are coached either by their husbands or self proclaimed “coaches” it is interesting to see Hellen Obiri living and training in the USA. It certainly seems to have worked out for the positive now she has transitioned to the marathon. I would love to see the likes of Tsegay (coached by her overweight husband) and Gidey trained by true professional coaches. Imagine what they could do then. For comparison the most famous and respected coach in Africa has to be Patrick Sang, and Kipyegon has blown the doors off three records since she took up with him…..
Why would you think that? A very fit woman with long legs, perfect stride and correct training can get it. Athing Mu, for example.
Not a chance. Human evolution doesn't work that fast. Don't be naive.
Had those dopers not blown away these WRs, we would have seen a slow progression through now. In which case, a 1:53 may not seem so impossible. However, women are still hovering around 2 and not consistency running 1:55/6, which does indicate we may be another 10 years away. Mu may be the exception and get it in a perfect race. There just aren't enough women racing all out in the 800. Lame