Will Sumner to join team Rinaldi/Fast 8 TC

Rinaldi was kind enough to send me a rough breakdown of fast8’s weekly schedule and periodization as well as goal/purpose over Instagram dm a few years ago when I first started coaching high school track. I had a boy go from 2:03 to 1:52 and win two 800m state championships by following that advice.

He should have got down to 1.44! If big Brad Mathas can anyone can!! Kind regards James Preston 😎

This is the kind of story that makes me remember how freaking cool and generous most of us runners are. (I sometimes wonder after reading on here for a while.) Congrats to you and your runner and kudos to JR for helping you out. What a mensch.

In addition to this he said that the coach at Life University (Indoor Gold Medalist in the 200) is who really helped him develop as a sprinter. I'd think between his parents and Dominic Demeritte he is in good hands for now.

Again, one second improvement of Deng would make you think Rinaldi is a world class coach instead of a "good coach on the Aussie level"?

What is the Aussie level exactly?

- 4th place finisher at Olympics

- 1.43 Runner

- Full time worker running 1.45

- Australian record...Rowe with matching time to record and 1.44

Etc. Is this the "aussie level"?

Tukas coach and Bosses coach is a joke cause you're just naming two "random" coaches whos had one 1.42 runner and therefore claiming these are way better than a coach who has shown himself able to produce several 1.43-1.45 runners. You also mention groups for for Sumners whos had a 1.42 runner, where the coach at that time is no longer there. Your knowledge seems really superficial and it all seems to be just a typical comment on facebook from someone who doesn't follow the sport, to be honest.

"At this level, you have the luxury to pick a coach with
a proven track record at the top level. You don't just say my personality meshes with this guy. You look for that among the top groups in the country and world where it makes
sense for you to train"

Thats the thing. You could argue he should train locally with a coach that is there everyday, fine, good argument. But you cannot name these supposedly obvious groups and just name some famous athletes coaches. And regarding proven track record, isnt several 1.45-1.43 runners better than ONE 1.42?

Post it here!! Would be a tremendous resource.

PLEASE, this would be epic.

I am happy for them!
If they can work together injury-free for a few years, they will surely achieve something outstanding. Rinaldi is not only a great coach, he is a real student and expert of the distance, and also a great person who is always open to passing on his knowledge.
I have two questions: in the 800m facebook group you mentioned the 8 day cycle Mathas is experimenting with (2 rest days, 2 tempo workouts). In older years the weekly endurance training was usually done at a higher pace e.g. 8x2 min vVO2max, or 1000s, miles at 3 min and faster pace per km. I have seen it being done more on a treadmill and at threshold pace. What is the reason for this?
Also, another is that there is no specific aerobic run day in this particular cycle like 40-60 minutes easy. What is the reason behind this?
Thanks in advance for your reply and good luck in the future!

I'm sure he doesn't mind because of how open he is with their training; this is also from 2020 so they may have made some changes, but from their twitter/instagram it seems that the overall structure remains really similar.

Me: "Could you tell me how you structure your weeks/cycles?"

Rinaldi:

Mon - always a speed session with a focus on drills and then short reps 30-50m and often finishing with a faster longer rep 200-300
Sat - always longer aerobic work 6-8km volume with reps ranging from 800m up to 2 miles. Session like 8x800 (1min) 6-8x1000m (90sec) 4x1mile (2:30) all on a dirt path. We keep these going even 10 days out from being in peak shape. Mainly because they are lower mileage type athletes and this helps to keep their fitness level up.
Winter
Tue - Tempo (15min) plus some 3km pace stuff on the track
Thu - Hills rotating between Week 1 100-200m Week 2 300-500m in length
Summer
Tue - 3km/1500m type work on the grass
Thu - hardest session of the week on the track 800-1500m pace. We only do an handful of those really hard faster than 800m pace lactic sessions each year, as they have to peak again for the European summer. So maybe only 2-3 Australian summer and then 4-5 European summer.

Off days runs
Wed 40
Fri 30
Sun 40-60min

Me: Thank you! Do you prescribe efforts/paces? I’d be interested to know if you tend to lean towards percentage of race pace, event-paces, efforts, or physiological paces like threshold, anaerobic power, etc.

Rinaldi:

For the track sessions, I break the sessions down for the 800 - pace for the first 200 (24sec), middle 400 (51 sec) and last 200 (26/27sec), just so it mimics an actual race, rather than just looking at the over all average pace of the event.
For the longer sessions off the track, we use tempo effort as the guys always forget their HR monitors so we can’t really measure it accurately.

I've also done a fair share of 'modifying' a few workouts he and Fast8 post to be more applicable or appropriate for a high schooler, but that guidance really made a massive impact on the overall structure of our program and workout goals/specifics.

In response to the 8 day cycle question

Within the weekly structure of training, I have frequent discussions with my team/peers on how to improve the response we get from the training that the athletes are completing so they can run faster in races. One area that was identified was the easy runs that the guys complete - obviously this is an important part of the program since the 800 m (despite its speed demands) is an aerobic dominant event, however sometimes the athletes would run these too fast, which would potentially affect the quality of subsequent sessions. Given guys like Pete and Joe (Mathas would run an extra 20km a week on average) are lower volume, speed oriented, we thought maybe replacing some continuous running with intervals instead would be better. Running reps at 17-18 kmph on a treadmill for them is still easy and in the aerobic zone, increases the stimulus, and possibly suits a speed / fast twitch oriented athlete better compared to a continuous run. However, given that the intensity is higher, we probably needed to give them more rest, hence we are currently in the test phase of playing around within cycles different to the regular 7 day / 4 interval workouts cycle to include more work, but also more rest - e.g. 4 day, 8 day cycles

Recent training block:

Friday, 23 June 2023
40min (6' easy 4min tempo x4) continuous run in the forest
Saturday, 24 June
8x200 (45"R) 28 5'R 8x200 (90"R) 26 (in flats)
Sunday, 25 June
Rest Day
Monday, 26 June
5x30m 2-3'R + 5x120m (80m walk)
Tuesday, 27 June
5x6min 1'R @18.0km on treadmill
Wednesday, 28 June
4x300 40" + 4x200 25" with 90"/8'R
Thursday, 29 June
Rest Day
Friday, 30 June
16x1' 30"R @3:00-3:05km p
Saturday, 1 July
3x500m 45/25" (kick downs) 6'R (pre workout WU included 1km tempo plus 3x120m (80m walk)
Sunday, 2 July
40min easy run
Monday, 3 July
Rest Day
Tuesday, 4 July
4x2min 4x1min 1'R @3:00p on dirt trail
Wednesday, 5 July
5x400 (1'R) 68 in flats + 2x300 (100 w) 37-38 in spikes
Thursday, 6 July
Rest Day
Friday, 7 July
Pre Race Easy jog, Drills plus 2x150m 18.5 then 17.5
Saturday, 8 July
Race

1 High treshold (16min total)
2 1500m/800m pace w/short rest
3 Rest
4 Short sprints
5 High treshold (30min total)
6 800m pace
7 Rest
8 High treshold (16min total)
9 Treshold + kick downs and speed
10 Easy run
11 Rest
12 High treshold (12min total)
13 Easy 400s + some 800m speed
14 Rest
15 Pre race jogg/drill/strides
16 Race

A few questions if you have the time..
I know this is comp. season so its different, but over time, are you not afraid that as many rest days will be too many days where one could have done "something" which in the long term would lead to improvement, would you decrease the amount of rest days outside of comp. season?

How do you determine the length and what kind of aerobic intervals? Its interesting that most of the aerobics are, if not a big total volume, are long. Would think perhaps speed oriented runners would have more say 45/15 etc.

Could go on forever, but lastly, seems like you previously had intervals with harder intensity, a bit more 5/10K like while it now seems to be more 10K/21K?

What would that "something" be tho? Justin stated that Deng & Bol tend to run too fast on their easy days therefore not recovering appropriately for subsequent sessions. The aerobic intervals replaces the aerobic stimulus an easy run provides and the rest day replaces the recovery than an easy run provides. It is important to remember that without recovery we cannot get adaptation. If you put "something" in there when are they going to recover?

To contradict myself, I know Marco Arop swims on Wednesdays so maybe something like water running could be the "something" but I think looking at the way the rest of the days are scheduled the "something" would have to be low impact & low intensity.

Justin I have a question on this session.

Sprinters would find it more logical for an 800 runner to work on top speed rather than accelerations. Sure sprinters do 30s, but only to help their start. I'd have thought the two things to help 800 runners are 30m sleds (crucial for running fast) and followed by 60m top speed runs (or fly 20s) - sort of a version of French contrast training. Have you tried that? 60s compared to 30s does put more strain on the body.

Also, do the guys do any gym - cleans etc, plus hami and glute circuits for injury prevention?

Didn’t look too bad in London today. Just in case you didn’t see that.

Couple of more 1.46’s for big bad Brad

Paging Mr Rinaldi, paging Mr J.Rinaldi........ another major champs passes by for Big Brad. Tick tock.......

I hesitate to respond to my critics here simply because Justin's a great guy and a good coach. I am also hesitant for Will Sumner not to get a coach with proven championship results in the 800m because he is too great a prospect to be coached half a world away. Murphy, Hoppel, and Symmonds are three Americans who have had some excellent 800m coaches as well.

BUMP..... Don't do it Will. The guy is a fraud.