No, the dirt roads in boulder don’t count as trail running sorry. I seriously doubt any competitive track runner is ever doing a run on highly technical and steep trail terrain. For a track race there is no benefit to exposing yourself to that much downhill and rolled ankle possibility
you talk about how training to run too fast is hard - Matthieu Blanchard (who Courtney Dauwalter beat) ran 2:22 at Paris in his build for WSER. Obviously not a podium time, but certainly not slow. And he got chicked!
But lets not forget that it is a huge advantage to live and train in the US for Western States. For a French runner it's a lot harder to show up in California and race in altitude, snow and heat at the same time.
Totally agree there. Didn’t want to drag him through the mud too much by the Courtney point, just wanted to show he has good marathon wheels and still didn’t win
But lets not forget that it is a huge advantage to live and train in the US for Western States. For a French runner it's a lot harder to show up in California and race in altitude, snow and heat at the same time.
Totally agree there. Didn’t want to drag him through the mud too much by the Courtney point, just wanted to show he has good marathon wheels and still didn’t win
100 miles on trails are a complex thing. Many things can happen over 14-24 hours. A Marathon lasts 2-5 hours and is usually held in favorable weather conditions for that location. That's what all the track people get wrong about ultrarunning. There are a lot more factors in play, it's not just the running.
Totally agree there. Didn’t want to drag him through the mud too much by the Courtney point, just wanted to show he has good marathon wheels and still didn’t win
100 miles on trails are a complex thing. Many things can happen over 14-24 hours. A Marathon lasts 2-5 hours and is usually held in favorable weather conditions for that location. That's what all the track people get wrong about ultrarunning. There are a lot more factors in play, it's not just the running.
Yeah, people have been saying for years that once faster road runners started doing trail ultras thaey would dominate. But apart from Walmsley, sub 2:20 guys really have not had much success at WS. This year's winner only has a PR of 2:26.
He made a wrong turn and shuffled in. That takes away from whatever point you tried but failed to make.
Results are results. Loser worshippers like you make excuses when they lose. "I shuffled in, therefore I didn't lose" and "I got lost, therefore I didn't lose" are new ones. How about, "Those people ran faster on a day I when ran slower, therefore I didn't lose," this makes as much sense as your pointless reply.
14th Kacu Lickteig 17:57:59
20th Jim Walmsley 18:45:36 (+0:47:37 .. OUCH!)
He didn't run slower, he ran farther. Not including that makes your take meaningless, and shows you are clearly bitter about Walmsley for some reason.
You act like real runners never use trails lol. Slow runners just choose to run farther because it doesn't hurt as bad, they get dinner breaks, and training to run fast is too hard. Jogging 9 minute pace is much easier and guess what? GIDEY CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
No, the dirt roads in boulder don’t count as trail running sorry. I seriously doubt any competitive track runner is ever doing a run on highly technical and steep trail terrain. For a track race there is no benefit to exposing yourself to that much downhill and rolled ankle possibility
you talk about how training to run too fast is hard - Matthieu Blanchard (who Courtney Dauwalter beat) ran 2:22 at Paris in his build for WSER. Obviously not a podium time, but certainly not slow. And he got chicked!
The Men’s Winner, Tom Evans, has run 13:41 for 5k and a 1:03:14 Half Marathon.
Results are results. Loser worshippers like you make excuses when they lose. "I shuffled in, therefore I didn't lose" and "I got lost, therefore I didn't lose" are new ones. How about, "Those people ran faster on a day I when ran slower, therefore I didn't lose," this makes as much sense as your pointless reply.
14th Kacu Lickteig 17:57:59
20th Jim Walmsley 18:45:36 (+0:47:37 .. OUCH!)
He didn't run slower, he ran farther.
Should the clock have stopped for him when he got to 100 miles, even if he was some 4 miles from the finish line? He "ran" the last 20ish miles in over 4 hours. So slow, he was passed by a girl, as well as 18 guys.
Yeah, people have been saying for years that once faster road runners started doing trail ultras thaey would dominate. But apart from Walmsley, sub 2:20 guys really have not had much success at WS. This year's winner only has a PR of 2:26.
Evans ran 2:26 one year after starting to train for running at age 24, which is incredible. Before that, his racing history has only run a single parkrun and a 5M XC while in the British Army. The 2:26 is also the only marathon he's ever raced, so it's a PR by default. He's also run 1:03 and 13:41. So that 2:26 is deceptive. He's a massive running talent who would have been much faster on the track/road if he had been developed starting in high school.
The ratio of the Women's (15:29) to Men's (14:09) course records at Western States is 1.09. The ratio of the Women's (10.49) to Men's (9.58) world records at 100 meters is 1.09. You do EXACTLY see this same "narrow" gender gap in the sprints. This same gender difference of 9-10% holds across the running world records at every distance. There are no novel theories required to explain a different gender gap at long versus short distances because there is none. Men are better than women at running by the same degree from 100 meters to 100 miles.
This is correct. This is, species wide, the difference in the sexes.
It is why it is so frustrating to debate the "sex-gender-sport" issue with non-athletes. They find a female swimmer who did some arctic 5km event and beat all the men and then argue that men and women are really not that different after all. Or, if some women can beat some men, they ask why we need two separate categories.
Well in sports, the sexes are 9-10% different and that is why women deserve separate races with equal prize money. A 14:05 5000m man is not a legendary god of the sport, Kipyegon is. A 1:53 800m boy is not a lock for Olympic gold, a 1:53 woman is.
Some people would rather ruin women's sports than admit there is a 9-10% difference in physical ability (when scaled up to the size of the whole population). It is Orwellian that the people who are trying to protect women's sport are considered bigots and the ones who would ruin it are considered allies. But sure, some people want to push the "there's no clear difference between men and women" narrative because it makes them feel like they are on the right side of history or woke or something.
Well in sports, the sexes are 9-10% different a...
Some people would rather ruin women's sports than admit there is a 9-10% difference in physical ability (when scaled up to the size of the whole population).
I told you up thread you did your math wrong, it's more like 11+% average or 9% to 15% difference across common events - which strengthens your point. I keep a spreadsheet that I update whenever there's a new WR. Here you go:
The ratio of the Women's (15:29) to Men's (14:09) course records at Western States is 1.09. The ratio of the Women's (10.49) to Men's (9.58) world records at 100 meters is 1.09. You do EXACTLY see this same "narrow" gender gap in the sprints. This same gender difference of 9-10% holds across the running world records at every distance. There are no novel theories required to explain a different gender gap at long versus short distances because there is none. Men are better than women at running by the same degree from 100 meters to 100 miles.
It is Orwellian that the people who are trying to protect women's sport are considered bigots and the ones who would ruin it are considered allies.
This is not precisely the truth. Many of those who claim they are trying to protect women’s sports are indeed bigots who have open disdain for transgenders. However, that is not to say they are not on the correct side of the argument involving women’s sports. So it is likely true that most on the side of protecting women’s sports are not bigots, but because a vocal minority are, the label is not entirely false although it is hugely misleading.
You act like real runners never use trails lol. Slow runners just choose to run farther because it doesn't hurt as bad, they get dinner breaks, and training to run fast is too hard. Jogging 9 minute pace is much easier and guess what? GIDEY CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
No, the dirt roads in boulder don’t count as trail running sorry. I seriously doubt any competitive track runner is ever doing a run on highly technical and steep trail terrain. For a track race there is no benefit to exposing yourself to that much downhill and rolled ankle possibility
you talk about how training to run too fast is hard - Matthieu Blanchard (who Courtney Dauwalter beat) ran 2:22 at Paris in his build for WSER. Obviously not a podium time, but certainly not slow. And he got chicked!
So, when women ultrarunners, and in this case Courtney, are achieving impressive times and may run faster than very good men ultrarunners like Matthieu Blanchard, getting "chicked" by Courtney is embarrassing for Mathieu?
Why take away from her performance after arguing how impressive it is in the same post?
It's incredible how narrow the gap is between the best men and women in the ultras. You don't exactly see this in the sprints.
I would love to know exactly why. Of course there are several theories about this.
Congratulations to Courtney.
Is it actually any narrower than regular events? There's like a universal 10% difference in times from 100m-marathon. Walmsley's record is like 14:06 ish. 10% of 15.5 hours = 1.5 hours = 90 mins, and she's like 83 mins off Walmsley's record?
Courtney is the one that won that 250+ mile race over guys right? I think there's a few reasons that the gap appears to shrink at the ultra level. The first is diluted competition, because the absolute best in the world are not racing ultras (this may be changing). Jim Walmsley's marathon PB is a minute slower than the women's WR. Second, most top ultrarunners aren't running the same races. Top runners are only racing a couple times a year. UTMB and Western State are 2 of the only races that consistently get top competition. There's also that one in South Africa (?) that AlSal did, and I'm sure there's a few others.
But the biggest factor in the narrower gap is that your final time is far less dependent on fitness and far more dependent on other factors (environment, weather, fueling, sleeping). There could be a dozen guys that are fitter than the best woman, but if the woman can get by on a few hours less sleep, she can win. Someone could be 6 hours ahead and get unlucky with weather, or they could run into a bear, or they could have trouble keeping down food. There have been a ton of women that have beat Bekele in marathons that he DNFed because he went out too hard, even though he definitely could've jogged a 2:12. Walmsley used to take heat because he'd go out super fast at Western State and couldn't hold the pace, until one year he did and smashed the course record.
My guess is that there's still the same gap between the best male and female performance, but there's a far greater chance of upset.
Edit: wait I wrote all this without saying that this performance is insane lmao I'd be cool with a black page
This post was edited 35 seconds after it was posted.
100 miles on trails are a complex thing. Many things can happen over 14-24 hours. A Marathon lasts 2-5 hours and is usually held in favorable weather conditions for that location. That's what all the track people get wrong about ultrarunning. There are a lot more factors in play, it's not just the running.
Yeah, people have been saying for years that once faster road runners started doing trail ultras thaey would dominate. But apart from Walmsley, sub 2:20 guys really have not had much success at WS. This year's winner only has a PR of 2:26.
He has run sub-14 for a road 5k so the 2:26 is useless really.
You got into discussion about some details of ultras. The point is: MIDDLE AGED WOMAN RUN FASTER 100 miles THAN KILLIAN JORNET. And you think she's clean.
You got into discussion about some details of ultras. The point is: MIDDLE AGED WOMAN RUN FASTER 100 miles THAN KILLIAN JORNET. And you think she's clean.
Courtney was actually pretty dirty after her win last night.
... 2) downhill trail running is way harder on your legs than the uphills. So to imply that the WSER course is easy because it’s net downhill is just flat out wrong.
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