Stop slighting, Clinger went undefeated on the grass for two full seasons including two NXN titles. The only high school runner to have accomplished that feat.
Fisher did the same thing but with Foot Locker, AND ran sub-4:00.
But why are you comparing a college athlete and a high school athlete ?
German Fernandez won NCAA 1500m in 2009, no one doubts 2009 German was way better than Leo.
However, as a senior in high school, in 2008, German finished 25th at world XC 1:37 behind the leader, and 11 seconds behind the first non African. As a high school senior, Leo finished 16th 1:34 behind the winner and first non African.
I’d still put German ahead of him in XC but I wouldn’t use world xc to prove your point, quite the opposite.
HS senior Leo is about the same age as college freshman German was, FWIW.
But why are you comparing a college athlete and a high school athlete ?
German Fernandez won NCAA 1500m in 2009, no one doubts 2009 German was way better than Leo.
However, as a senior in high school, in 2008, German finished 25th at world XC 1:37 behind the leader, and 11 seconds behind the first non African. As a high school senior, Leo finished 16th 1:34 behind the winner and first non African.
I’d still put German ahead of him in XC but I wouldn’t use world xc to prove your point, quite the opposite.
HS senior Leo is about the same age as college freshman German was, FWIW.
Leo is typical high school senior age, he turned 18 on 28th february, just 3 months before graduating.
Yes they were born 8 months appart, but if we start thinking like that, we’re going to have to make a ranking for every month of the year.
And the thread is about US high school athletes anyway. If we start bringing college athletes into that discussion, why not bring Jakob or Laros.
After today's big race at Nike Outdoor Nationals, I believe Simeon Birnbaum has cemented himself into an elite category of the top 10 great high school distance runners.
I've made a list of my Top 25 and would like to hear the people of LetsRun's feedback:
1. Jim Ryun
2. Gerry Lindgren
3. Dathan Ritzenhein
4. Alan Webb
5. Craig Virgin
6. Lukas Verzbicas
7. Colin Sahlman
8. Nico Young
9. Simeon Birnbaum
10. Galen Rupp
11. German Fernandez
12. Drew Hunter
13. Lex Young
14. Leo Young
15. Hobbs Kessler
16. Rudy Chapa
17. Edward Cheserek
18. Jeff Nelson
19. Marty Liqouri
20. Grant Fisher
21. Eric Hulst
22. Chris Solinsky
23. Steve Prefontaine
24. Casey Clinger
25. Gary Martin
Honorable Mention
- Thom Hunt
- Bill McChesney
- Aaron Sahlman
- Connor Burns
- Ryan Hall
- Chris Derrick
- Heuby Dooby
- Rocky Hansen
- Lionel Ritchy
- Ricky Bobby
Had some fun researching and developing this list, feel free to leave some suggestions as in no means is it perfect. I always appreciate some feedback. Thank you all, Happy Father's Day.
I would also add Bucky Larsen to your list that guy is born to be a star!
Assuming he’s actually running USAs? No, I wouldn’t expect him to make the final, and there’s a big difference between making the final and making the team. In arguably his best race yet he got pipped by Conner Mantz and blown away by Matt Wisner. He’s currently #24 U.S. this season. Give it a few years.
But did either Mantz or Wisner have a 2-mile PB in their legs from a race two days earlier?
Okay, you say Birnbaum does not advance to the final. I say he does, and sets another 1500m PB at USA’s.
Bruce Kidd, Greg Anderson, Kevin Sullivan, and Nathan Brannen? Those guys are Canadian. If you open this list up to international runners, which East Africans would you add?
I would add Rick Riley to the list of U.S. high school runners. He was from Spokane and ran the two mile in 8:43.8 in 1966, setting a national high school record.
your downvoting doesn't change the results... 2009 world xc U20 championships
Except that while Derrick was only 18 at the time he was a Freshman at Sanford at the time. The OP thought Craig Virgin was top 5. What? He would barely be top 10 at 2 Miles in 2023 let alone an all-timer and he could not even break 2:00 at 800 nor is he top 10 at 5K. Young ran faster at 5K than Virgin did at 3 miles.
If I was Birnbaum, I would seriously consider running U-20's instead of senior nationals. It would give him a legitimate chance to make the U-20 worlds team and compete with some of the best age group runners in the world. I don't know how far his PR can go this season, but if he can medal at worlds against the East Africans and others, I would be inclined to move him a lot farther up a list like this than if he were to set a small PR at senior nationals.
Also, in response to a comment way earlier in the thread, German Fernandez did not run his senior year track state meet in Fresno. He ran it at Cerritos before Veteran's Memorial Stadium in Fresno was completed. Pretty good conditions for running that day as it was the same day that Christine Babcock ran 4:33 in the 1600m and Jodan Hasay beat Laurynne Chetelet in the 3200m 9:52 to 9:53. The reason why the other boys were so slow in the 3200m is because they tried to go with German and all fell apart. I'm not sure that any of this would change the way he is ranked on this list though as I'm not sure anyone was really taking the Fresno heat and wind into account.
After today's big race at Nike Outdoor Nationals, I believe Simeon Birnbaum has cemented himself into an elite category of the top 10 great high school distance runners.
I've made a list of my Top 25 and would like to hear the people of LetsRun's feedback:
1. Jim Ryun
2. Gerry Lindgren
3. Dathan Ritzenhein
4. Alan Webb
5. Craig Virgin
6. Lukas Verzbicas
7. Colin Sahlman
8. Nico Young
9. Simeon Birnbaum
10. Galen Rupp
11. German Fernandez
12. Drew Hunter
13. Lex Young
14. Leo Young
15. Hobbs Kessler
16. Rudy Chapa
17. Edward Cheserek
18. Jeff Nelson
19. Marty Liqouri
20. Grant Fisher
21. Eric Hulst
22. Chris Solinsky
23. Steve Prefontaine
24. Casey Clinger
25. Gary Martin
Honorable Mention
- Thom Hunt
- Bill McChesney
- Aaron Sahlman
- Connor Burns
- Ryan Hall
- Chris Derrick
- Futsum Zeinasellasie
- Rocky Hansen
Had some fun researching and developing this list, feel free to leave some suggestions as in no means is it perfect. I always appreciate some feedback. Thank you all, Happy Father's Day.
Julian, I like your list. At least you had the guts to put one out there. You will get ripped, it's impossible for that not to happen here.
If I was Birnbaum, I would seriously consider running U-20's instead of senior nationals.
He’s currently entered in the 800m at U20’s, and the 1500m at USA’s.
Here is one suggested strategy for Birnbaum at USA’s:
Run the 1500m Senior 1st Round on Day 1, and try and get the World Standard time in that heat. If successful, scratch the 800m U20 attempt, and totally focus on the 1500m Senior final.
It is a small chance, but not zero chance, Birnbaum makes the Budapest team. However, the final will likely be a tactical affair. If he were in it lacking the World standard, he would probably be the guinea pig chasing it and get kicked-down by at least 3 others, missing the team.
Therefore, he needs to get the World Standard in the 1st Round, so that he can then take a shot in a kicker’s race in the Final.
“However, the final will likely be a tactical affair.” That is, if no one is chasing the World Standard in the final. The 1500m in 2022 was won by Teare in 3:45.86.
“Here is one suggested strategy for Birnbaum at USA’s: Run the 1500m Senior 1st Round on Day 1, and try and get the World Standard time in that heat.” Which is 3:34.20.
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