Fair or foul: HS Coach scratches athlete from state qualifying mile race as coach didn't like effort he gave in 800

c7runner7 wrote:

I have to say this thread is pretty surprising. Normally LetsRun falls on the side of “being tough” to a fault. (Cue another “back in the 80’s” story). But this thread is overwhelmingly on the side of an athlete- An athlete who essentially was refusing to compete. I get both sides- I’m just stating it’s very odd this thread is so one-sided.

I tripled fairly often in high school and it was usually hot. My coaches would’ve been pretty pissed if I deliberately chose to jog a race- especially in a scored meet. And I had amazing coaches.

Refusing to compete (assuming he wasn’t hurt or just had a really really insanely bad race) isn’t the mark of a champion- or even a “great” athlete. I get the arguments for not tripling, but that’s all discussions you have BEFORE the meet. And ultimately, if you are healthy and your coach says to race, you race. Even if the coach is a complete clown, it’s still pretty disrespectful to simply not compete in a race you were instructed to run. (I understand todays culture doesn’t really believe in “respect” if it’s not earned or whatever, but still.)

*I’m not really on the coach’s side as the whole thing seems weird and him arguing on the starting line just seems odd. And there was obviously some lack of communication/respect between the coach and athlete which I put mostly on the coach because he’s the adult. But as a competitor, I can’t give this kid a pass IF he intentionally jogged the 800 AND knew beforehand he was supposed to race it (Maybe he was sick or hurt, or the distance coach said he was only running the 16/32 and then the other coach entered him in all 3 anyways without telling them…. idk- I won’t make judgements without knowing the fully story). But I’m just saying if you’re healthy, fit, and have been clearly instructed to do something, then just compete. Be a competitor.

yes siree wrote:

c7runner7 wrote:

I have to say this thread is pretty surprising. Normally LetsRun falls on the side of “being tough” to a fault. (Cue another “back in the 80’s” story). But this thread is overwhelmingly on the side of an athlete- An athlete who essentially was refusing to compete. I get both sides- I’m just stating it’s very odd this thread is so one-sided.

I tripled fairly often in high school and it was usually hot. My coaches would’ve been pretty pissed if I deliberately chose to jog a race- especially in a scored meet. And I had amazing coaches.

Refusing to compete (assuming he wasn’t hurt or just had a really really insanely bad race) isn’t the mark of a champion- or even a “great” athlete. I get the arguments for not tripling, but that’s all discussions you have BEFORE the meet. And ultimately, if you are healthy and your coach says to race, you race. Even if the coach is a complete clown, it’s still pretty disrespectful to simply not compete in a race you were instructed to run. (I understand todays culture doesn’t really believe in “respect” if it’s not earned or whatever, but still.)

*I’m not really on the coach’s side as the whole thing seems weird and him arguing on the starting line just seems odd. And there was obviously some lack of communication/respect between the coach and athlete which I put mostly on the coach because he’s the adult. But as a competitor, I can’t give this kid a pass IF he intentionally jogged the 800 AND knew beforehand he was supposed to race it (Maybe he was sick or hurt, or the distance coach said he was only running the 16/32 and then the other coach entered him in all 3 anyways without telling them…. idk- I won’t make judgements without knowing the fully story). But I’m just saying if you’re healthy, fit, and have been clearly instructed to do something, then just compete. Be a competitor.

Very reasonable response. Also shocked by the overwhelming support for athlete despite lack of details. The optics on this for the coach is bad and how he handled it was poor enough to warrant a firing regardless of the situation. But the speculation I heard is the kid was openly disrespectful to the coach In front of the team after the 800. There was a loud back and forth and the kid essentially told the coach to go bleep himself. If accurate , should that kid be allowed to continue racing?

yes siree wrote:

c7runner7 wrote:

I have to say this thread is pretty surprising. Normally LetsRun falls on the side of “being tough” to a fault. (Cue another “back in the 80’s” story). But this thread is overwhelmingly on the side of an athlete- An athlete who essentially was refusing to compete. I get both sides- I’m just stating it’s very odd this thread is so one-sided.

I tripled fairly often in high school and it was usually hot. My coaches would’ve been pretty pissed if I deliberately chose to jog a race- especially in a scored meet. And I had amazing coaches.

Refusing to compete (assuming he wasn’t hurt or just had a really really insanely bad race) isn’t the mark of a champion- or even a “great” athlete. I get the arguments for not tripling, but that’s all discussions you have BEFORE the meet. And ultimately, if you are healthy and your coach says to race, you race. Even if the coach is a complete clown, it’s still pretty disrespectful to simply not compete in a race you were instructed to run. (I understand todays culture doesn’t really believe in “respect” if it’s not earned or whatever, but still.)

*I’m not really on the coach’s side as the whole thing seems weird and him arguing on the starting line just seems odd. And there was obviously some lack of communication/respect between the coach and athlete which I put mostly on the coach because he’s the adult. But as a competitor, I can’t give this kid a pass IF he intentionally jogged the 800 AND knew beforehand he was supposed to race it (Maybe he was sick or hurt, or the distance coach said he was only running the 16/32 and then the other coach entered him in all 3 anyways without telling them…. idk- I won’t make judgements without knowing the fully story). But I’m just saying if you’re healthy, fit, and have been clearly instructed to do something, then just compete. Be a competitor.

Very reasonable response. Also shocked by the overwhelming support for athlete despite lack of details. The optics on this for the coach is bad and how he handled it was poor enough to warrant a firing regardless of the situation. But the speculation I heard is the kid was openly disrespectful to the coach In front of the team after the 800. There was a loud back and forth and the kid essentially told the coach to go bleep himself. If accurate , should that kid be allowed to continue racing?

90s Tripler wrote:

I side with the head coach.

It's a district meet which is a championship meet. The coach's job is to win the team title. The athletes job is to contribute as much as he can. Yes, the athletes safety is a priority but running the 3200, 800, and 1600 isn't going to hurt anyone.

I had roughly similar hsvprs as the athlete in question. My junior and senior year, I ran the 3200, 800, and 1600 at our conference meet. This was at a boys only meet that took less than 90 minutes from the first final to the 4x 4. I probably had 45 minutes between the 3200 to the 800 and maybe 25 mins from the 800 to the 1600. It was 90s degrees and humid each year. I ran every event hard and got 2 firsts and 1 second each year. We just barely won conference my junior year and just barely lost out my senior year.

I qualified for state both years a week after the conference meet with PR times so its not like running the triple hurt me.

If i had run 2:11 and no pointed in the 800 i would have been ashamed of myself and I guarantee my coach and teammates would have lost respect for me.

If you want to run for yourself, have someone bike pace you and post the results to Instagram and Strava. There's nothing wrong with that but 17 year old kids don't "deserve" to use team competitions as a vehicle to promote themselves.

The athlete gets to run state in the 3200. Butler isn't going to withdraw his scholarship because he doesn't run the 1600 at the FL state meet. The athlete is a solid 4:17 hs miler. Maybe he'll break 4 someday. Maybe he won't. Not running one event in the Florida state meet won't make any difference to that or any other significant part of the kids life.

If a star basketball player half-a$ed defense in one of the last games of the year, people would applaud a coach who had the courage to bench his best athlete.

Refusing to run hard in your off event because it might slightly hurt your time in your best event is a punk move.

Also- get off my lawn-

it is time wrote:

90s Tripler wrote:

I side with the head coach.

It's a district meet which is a championship meet. The coach's job is to win the team title. The athletes job is to contribute as much as he can. Yes, the athletes safety is a priority but running the 3200, 800, and 1600 isn't going to hurt anyone.

I had roughly similar hsvprs as the athlete in question. My junior and senior year, I ran the 3200, 800, and 1600 at our conference meet. This was at a boys only meet that took less than 90 minutes from the first final to the 4x 4. I probably had 45 minutes between the 3200 to the 800 and maybe 25 mins from the 800 to the 1600. It was 90s degrees and humid each year. I ran every event hard and got 2 firsts and 1 second each year. We just barely won conference my junior year and just barely lost out my senior year.

I qualified for state both years a week after the conference meet with PR times so its not like running the triple hurt me.

If i had run 2:11 and no pointed in the 800 i would have been ashamed of myself and I guarantee my coach and teammates would have lost respect for me.

If you want to run for yourself, have someone bike pace you and post the results to Instagram and Strava. There's nothing wrong with that but 17 year old kids don't "deserve" to use team competitions as a vehicle to promote themselves.

The athlete gets to run state in the 3200. Butler isn't going to withdraw his scholarship because he doesn't run the 1600 at the FL state meet. The athlete is a solid 4:17 hs miler. Maybe he'll break 4 someday. Maybe he won't. Not running one event in the Florida state meet won't make any difference to that or any other significant part of the kids life.

If a star basketball player half-a$ed defense in one of the last games of the year, people would applaud a coach who had the courage to bench his best athlete.

Refusing to run hard in your off event because it might slightly hurt your time in your best event is a punk move.

Also- get off my lawn-

This response sucks. A high school coach's job isn't to win. It's to guide young athletes. Winning has never been the only important thing in high school coaching and it certainly isn't his only job. If you have one athlete scoring all of your points, how does that help the rest of the team? They just watch from the sidelines and cheer I guess? A good coach would develop at least 3 or 4 good athletes to score points as a team. That's probably more accurately their job.

Having a kid run 4 events at a major meet isn't "your job" it's your ego.