Who was better at XC in high school? German Fernandez or Aaron Sahlman?

I agree with this analysis, though. Makes sense.

I thought it was at the nationals held at the armory. I am mistaken. Honestly I've seen a lot of races and this is a long time ago. Memories are funny like that.

Ok, Moving on from that. 353 Webb in a parallel dimension does pre 2 mile instead. Yeah. He prob crushes it. 825-830 is my guess. I don't think he gets the 817 on the conversion tables for aforementioned reasons. But it's also tricky bc at the 2 mile he prob wouldn't have anyone to run with. Usually won in around 8:11. I can't see Webb attempting that kind of pace. Lv had someone to key off of which def helped.

And also their times were run very end of season, and kind of a surprise time even for them. Prob not many chances to even squeeze in a quality 2 mile after those races. I guess it depends on where you're from. But for my area after May you're done and preparing for next year's xc.

Hobbs is disqualified from consideration because he has done nothing of note in cross country.

hmm, okayyyy

The above poster is talking about a 2 mile match race. Cross country is not a prerequisite.

Hobbs ran the easiest looking 8:39 ever with a 25 second last 200m.

Also true and most that saw it on streaming would agree. He also won a Mich state title in a separate race than Riley Hough

with zero comp in a time that is 5th on the all time list. Faster than Grant Fisher ran . He was good enough in Cross

again to put Ritz in perspective? He ran 36….36 seconds faster than anyone ever

Ritz was something else. He buried Webb and everyone else at Footlocker, off a slow first mile, when Webb had just set the Footlocker South record in a downpour and was about a month away from breaking 4 indoors.

That 36 seconds was about the same gap as between Ritz and Bekele at World Junior XC, but Ritz's bronze medal, in the era of African dominance, is one of the greatest American HS distance running achievements ever.

Many on here have no idea how great Webb was at Cross. Not only did he do that at South Regions, but as a a JUNIOR sight unseen, no run over it? He ran the second fastest time at Vanny EVER..in 12:17, you should see some of the guys on that list at the time. Had he come back the next year he surely would have run under 12:10, which at the times would have been other worldly.

What a spectacular coincidence that he got five of the best 20 high schoolers ever within a five year time period! Also a coincidence that he had Aschbrenner, not a Young or Sahlman, run 8:44 and at least four other guys, not Aschbrenner, Youngs or Sahlmans, break 9.

Is the course different than the manhattan invitational? Ches ran 11:55

https://ny.milesplit.com/pages/VCP_Boys_AT indicates 12:18.8, but still a great run and within a few seconds of the record at the time. Yeah, I could see a senior Webb being good for 12:10 or a bit faster. Senior Ritz might have been able to run something in the same neighborhood as Cheserek's 11:55, and this seems consistent with their 2000 Footlocker results.

What do we think of the original question?

I would’ve said german by far, but thinking about it idk. Woodward german vs. nxn sahlman. Both at their best. Germans record withstood nico colin leo and lex. But aaron would’ve probably beat leo even if he didn’t hit the wall he did and leo was 1 second back of germans time. I’d still give it to GF, especially under normal circumstances, but if aaron could put together the race of his life like nxn, it’d be VERY close.

German's solo 3:55 at Big 12 conference looks entirely like he was already prepared to run that 3:34 he eventually ran in Europe after his senior year at OK State. Totally under control and smooth.

I remember the juniors race at USATF XC nats in 2009 during German’s brief period of good health in his freshman year of college - he won by 20 seconds over Chris Derrick.

It was modified, albeit slightly, Starting with before Rosa, ran 12:05? I think. The start and the finish, were moved. I would say the course was almost identical, though, because I always have.., assuming they had wheeled it correctly on the revision. Many Many old timers I know, think the course which had been improved over time was faster..how much? No one knows, or if it even was faster or..if guys just got better, remember the "reinvention" of HS running did kind of coincide with Dyestat, "The Big Three" Ritz, Webb Hall".Before that era came along Brad Hudson's 12:15 had help up for decades.Then in 2004? Murdock tied the Old Record and Forys and Gruenwald both shattered it in Different races.

Fun fact: When Colin ran 3:56 (in pro race where he finished 13th), he was older than German was during his solo 3:56 indoors.

German would have been a 3:55 or better high school miler today.

It's fun to see German still getting love on these boards. I coach against his alma mater and got to witness his entire career first hand. I still see coach Edwards a couple of times a year. He's retired from teaching, but still coaches the Tennis team at Riverbank. Right before the pandemic, he started helping out with the FS cross country team as well. He's been in and out with them, but you can tell he has an effect on the athletes.

People forget that after German ran 15:14 at Woodward as a sophomore (in his first CC season ever), he tore is meniscus playing JV basketball. That injury went undiagnosed his entire sophomore track season, but he still hobbled to 3 league titles at our league meet that year. He had surgery that summer and didn't start running again until October, (where he took second at CA state D4 meet).

The half marathon referenced above came in his Junior year as he was starting to build back up. IMO it was too much too soon, as he was in and out with injury the rest of his Junior year (although he did make the state meet in CA, placing 3rd in 9:08 on a fairly hot afternoon in Sacramento) and then running 4:13 at Golden West

The next two years, he ran injury free (aside from a case of shin splints after the world U20 meet). That is where the magic happened. I remember watching him open the season with a 14:4x, on the course that also served as our league finals meet. It just got better from there. People forget that there weren't really meets that attracted the best runners from around the country to one location at this point. So, his early season times were met with skepticism. As it turns out, the course on which he opened his season with a 14:4x, measured about 80 meters long (I've wheeled it myself). It wasn't until he crushed Marc Davis's course record at Woodward, that people really started to notice.

Unfortunately for him, he was sick at Foot Locker Finals

The next meet that really got people talking about him was a super low key invitational where he was quadrupling as a workout. He opened up with a 4:15 or 4:18 or something, then went 1:57, then decided he'd try and break 9:00 for the first time (running 8:53 and lapping the field. The race was so small that we combined the boys and girls for the 3200 and he had to run wide for most of the race as he actually lapped some kids 3 times). Then he turned around and split 52.x on the 4x4.

The rest of his senior season is pretty well documented and recapped already on this thread.

That freshman year at OK State, IMO was simply a continuation of what he did in high school. He had another year of relatively injury free running (although he did drop out of CC nationals with a strain to his plantaris). Leading wire to wire to win the NCAA 1500 and then coming back to run 13:25 at USATF 5k were probably the pinnacle of his career

I'll see him this Friday at Riverbank at a distance carnival bearing his name. I'll say hi on behalf of the LR community.