Where Does Bob Kennedy's Career Rank?

Well at the time there weren't that many guys ahead of Kennedy all time. Now we have Broe, Goucher, and Webb just sniffing sub 13:10, but it's like what? 10 years later.

Here was the all time performer's list at the end of 1996:

1 12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 1 Zürich 16.08.1995

2 12:45.09 Daniel Komen KEN 1 Zürich 14.08.1996

3 12:50.80 Salah Hissou MAR 1 Roma 05.06.1996

4 12:53.72 Philip Mosima KEN 2 Roma 05.06.1996

5 12:54.72 Paul Tergat KEN 3 Zürich 14.08.1996

6 12:54.85 Moses Kiptanui KEN 3 Roma 05.06.1996

7 12:55.76 Khalid Boulami MAR 4 Zürich 14.08.1996

8 12:57.23 Worku Bikila ETH 3 Roma 08.06.1995

9 12:58.21 Bob Kennedy USA 5 Zürich 14.08.1996

Wake me up the next time an American is the 9th fastest anything over 400 M.

If the WR's were broken in small increments throughout the 90's then I would say that the whomever "didn't have to contend with the Africans" argument would be valid. However, Yobes Ondieki ran sub 27:00 for 10k and this was lauded as the greatest distance run of all time. Geb knocked over 30 seconds off that time. This isn't comparing slightly faster WR's from different era's, this is a complete rewrite of the record books. Sorry, Shorter's gold medal in the marathon isn't even remotely comparable to Tergat and Geb in the 1996 Olympics. The fact is the 90's era changed the sport - it is far superior to other era's in the 5k/10k.

zxcvbn wrote:

So what, still a looooong way from the world record and the guy never won a race in Europe.

That's because every race he ran had either Gebrselassie, Komen, Tergat, Hissou, or another top, top Kenyan entered.

Kennedy easily could have entered one of the minor GP races won in 13:15 and cleaned up, but he actually wanted to get better.

You are obviously a troll and I suggest you piss off; you have added nothing to this thread.

[/quote]That's because every race he ran had either Gebrselassie, Komen, Tergat, Hissou, or another top, top Kenyan entered...[/quote]or Khalid Boulami, who finished ahead of BK 4th in Zurich behind Geb, Komen, and Tergat, and Boulam is the 19th fastest performer all time at 12:53.41.

For those interested, Kennedy is now 42nd all time performer.

IF people must compare runners across generations then i think about the only fair way to do it is to look at their pr's in relation to the standing world record at their time... i think that puts kennedy pretty far down the list and all you pre bashers, hey it puts him pretty high up on the list, was running 3:54 in the mile when the wr was 3:51, was close in the 3000, 5000 and 10000 - all by the time he was 24

But i most certainly agree with some earlier posters, you can't compare across generations - in my mind the african revolution in the 90s really upped the competitiveness of the sport. I think it is narrow minded not to consider bob kennedy's 12:58 as being done in a time that was much more competitive... for that reason i will always consider him one of the american greats (can't really rank them), he competed with the likes of some amazing african runners

You are DEAD wrong mister!

Let me tell you, the Oly finals is the epitome of running... now swallow that and digest it! (for you the digestion period will take about a year). Every runner who was world-class knows this.. I swear to you Bob would have hand over both of his nuts and all of his subordinate records to have won gold. You know it, I know it and Bob knows it... Look it Ryun, silver medalist.. same story.. He would have given his records to have that gold... I sh*t you not.. Ryun not winning gold still haunts him...

That is why Schul, Mills, Liquori, and Shorter will always to the top of the list.. because they ran when it counted.. history has and always will show this to be true...

Hell you can place Meb above Bob because of his silver medal.. I bet Bob wished he had a silver medal.. No doubt..

Bob was a good runner.. end of story

Liqouri?? How did he join Schul, Mills and Shorter? He didnt win gold if thats your standard.

my bad;

scratch Marty should be Dave Wottle

wejo wrote:

Run5k wrote:

No offense, but that's a rather short-sighted perspective. Just because our elite distance runners from the previous generation(s) didn't compete against an entire armada of Kenyans & Ethiopians doesn't mean that their medals should be considered "tarnished."

The person who suggested it knows a ton of runnnig history and is near 50 years old. I don't think its short sighted at all. I see where they are coming from.

The person posting right now is near 50 years old and I think that it's a short sighted argument although I can see why people make it. The runners from the past only had the runners they ran against to compete against. Just as Kennedy did....and in some facets he simply wasn't as good or as competitive against the competition as a few others were.

But let me tell you! Everyone who watched Kennedy in 96 will tell you he didnt show up to run. Man he was such a slacker!! You idiot...

No one can say he didnt leave his heart, guts and soul in Atlanta in '96. He gave it everything he had and came up short. Not like he left anything out there and didnt give it all he had.

Me personally I think you can all say.

He didnt do this!!

He didnt do that!!

He didnt beat him!!

Last I checked hes the only american raising his hand when asked. Did you run 12:58??

So for that I think if he beat yifter, lost 15 olympic finals or cured cancer on one of his splits..

12:58 is 12:58 and until someone else joins him or breaks 12:58 american wise its his track with just us here to criticize.

The BK Years wrote:

I forgot Liquori-Number one ranked in the world in the mile one year plus a near world record losing to Yifter in "77. Put him right behind Virgin and in front of Pefontaine. But not up with Kennedy.

Wasn't the question of where Kennedy ranked "above one mile"?

Liquori also ranked #1 over 5000 meters in '77

who is Bob Kennedy and who cares, this is boring

started.

Nope. Not dead wrong. DEAD RIGHT! While the Olympics are SUPER important, one good race (Billy Mills) does not a better career make. Kennedy's 12:58 is WAY better comparably to anything Mills ever ran. A win in an Olympic final is just the result of being faster than the people in the race that day. Sometimes the best don't make it there (illness, injury, ran ANOTHER EVENT instead, etc.). People need to quit getting all geeked about Olympic medals. Of course it's great to get one, and anyone who does should be proud as hell, but to say that Meb is better than BK based on a Silver Medal at the Olympics against a less-than-stellar field is crazy. 12:58, and at the time BK ran that time, is freakin' awesome. Since he broke 13 minutes twice and was under 13:10 a slew of times too, he certainly wasn't a one-race wonder (see Billy Mills). At least Wottle had the world record in the 800 at one point.

There are so many big races out there now that the Olympics isn't the clear pinnacle it once was. It still is the pinnacle, but BK was clearly a better runner than Meb. Meb still has time to change that, but it is highly doubtful.

So by your reasoning, Bernard Lagat is a far better than Coe, Cram or Ovett because he has a faster 1500m time though he doesn't have Oly golds. Wow that makes a lot of sense.

Get off of that 12:58!

It was a time trial race.. He did not even win the race which would have been more important than his finishing time...

Running races is about winning not what time you ran...

Now slowly...

let it sink in..

ahhhh there...

actually i probably would say lagat is in the same league if not better than them, doesn't lagat have a couple of silvers and a 3:26 1500 to his credit and didn't he also go sub 13 in the 5000....i'd say lagat is just about in anyone's league

wrote:

So by your reasoning, Bernard Lagat is a far better than Coe, Cram or Ovett because he has a faster 1500m time though he doesn't have Oly golds. Wow that makes a lot of sense.

wrote:

So by your reasoning, Bernard Lagat is a far better than Coe, Cram or Ovett because he has a faster 1500m time though he doesn't have Oly golds. Wow that makes a lot of sense.

Uh, actually, yes, Lagat is ABSOLUTELY better at 1500m than Coe, Cram, and Ovett.

Ovett has 1 1500m gold, Coe has 1, and Cram has 0.

With all due respect to thos three, who are simply fantastic runners, they never had to compete against someone who ran a 1:32.25 last 700m (El Guerrouj), nor did they run up against 3:30 1500m finals which were fast from the gun (2001 in Edmonton; had El Guerrouj not spent the last 40m slowing and turning sideways to wave to the ground, he would have run 3:29 in a CHAMPIONSHIP race).

Lagat has a silver and a bronze in Olympic competition.

The only two people who have ever defeated Lagat in Olympic competition are both 3:43 milers. One is simply a perennial WR holder and has run times at distance from 1500m-5,000m that blow anyone from the 80's away, and the other has run 2:11.96 for 1,000m, passing through 800m in 1:44 and continuing for another 200m more.

All respect to that English trio, but Lagat is better at 1500m in a fast race (3:26.34 PR), and, as we saw in Athens, slower ones as well.

I agree with those that say it's too difficult to compare runners from different eras and runners with different specialties. A couple of things, Flagpole... Mills was not a one-race wonder. He did set the WR at one point (the year after his gold medal?). And although I'm not saying that Meb is better than BK, I think Meb fans have a good argument and I disagree that BK was "clearly" a better runner. Meb has started to put together a pretty damn impressive resume of his own with tremendous successes in all avenues - track, road, cross.

One thing that I would like to point out that I don't think has been mentioned is the opportunities that are available now that weren't available in the 60s and 70s in terms of making money and therefore, the ability to extend a career. That alone, makes the eras very different and impossible to compare.

On another semi-related topic, I've heard BK speak to FL finalists and NTN teams and he was truly first class -- very humble and a very realistic, down-to-earth message to the kids. Despite his elite status, he did a great job of relating to kids, most of which will never earn a dime from running.

Well, seeing as Lagat is #2 All-time miler, I think it does make a lot of sense.