You think forcing an athlete with a history of an eating disorder to keep a journal of everything they eat would end well?
Please don’t doctor anymore.
it could actually save their lives. if the journal shows 500 calories, they know to step in.
there is no solution to an eating disorder, but probably one of the worst things you can do is say "just don't keep track of what you are eating at all" because that person probably has a tendency or propensity to skip meals. this is because they won't acknowledge missing meals because they are so used to it they won't think twice.
but to reiterate my first point - if she's so singularly focused on improving her times at all costs, she should not have been competing. it is not healthy. the unfortunate reality is people with eating disorders live much healthier lifestyles after stopping competitive athletics. As a doctor you have to decide what is more important - her olympic dreams or her life.
Easy to say, hard to do. Her obsession is driving her eating disorder. Easy to say, well stop running. That's her obsession, though. Physicians have little understanding of psychology.
I like Philly. I think she's quite funny, and it's interesting to get an insight into running at a sub-elite /elite level (most other running Youtubers aren't as accomplished).
However, this is clearly a very one-sided take. I'm not denying that any of the things she claims happened, but they're presented in a way that certainly downplays her responsibility, and casts her coach in the worst possible light.
To be honest, she did look "heavy" in some of those poor performances that she references (relative to how she looks now). So, I don't blame the coach for recommending a nutritionist.
However, I really don't understand eating disorders - and I think lots of people struggle to get their head around such things. Most people see a possible cause of a bad performance, and for them it's an easy solution. ("Oh, you're 10 pounds heavier than when you ran your PBs - that explains it.")
Anyway, good to see she's now fit, healthy and back to running at her best.
I’ve now watched the video. It’s worth watching. There are a lot of bad things she references, but here’s the worst part:
(1) runner discloses prior history of eating disorder before joining team
(2) coach acknowledges
(3) runner struggles
(4) runner makes a comment that after a bad workout that her legs feel heavy
(5) coach responds by asking “are you heavy?” and then tells her to work with the nutritionist
(6) runner relapses “badly” into eating disorder
I’m honestly shocked by this. She doesn’t explicitly say it was Helen but she basically says as much without saying it. I’ve given her a pass on these issues thinking it was just Johnson but I’m suspecting I was mistaken in that regard.
There is literally nothing wrong with what the coach did. You can't honestly say a coach recommending a nutritionist is the cause of an eating disorder.
You have to realize as well that the girl's account is clearly exaggerated. A boring story does not get clicks or views. But even the exaggerated account of the facts shows nothing wrong.
Yeah, it's seemingly an unpopular opinion but I watched this video when it first came out, and when you couple what you already know of Philly (complains alot, sandbags constantly, always seems more interested in messing about than working hard, hasn't improved almost at all in the many years since college, is very self-focused etc) then it does make you question things about her story.
I don't know the coaches back then at Oregon, so I'm not being an apologist for them, but it sounds reasonable she was directed towards a nutritionalist, partly because of her history of ED, partly from her poor performances, but also because often college kids eat like crap, and not to intentionally back this up - but she has since lost weight
The whole bit at the end about the coach commenting on how when she leaves the focus can go back to being on the team, reiterates for me that she may have been a distraction goofing around, and maybe she just didnt realise how serious US collegiate sports would be, because lets be honest, even now at 27yo, she is v far from mature.
As a coach, it always amuses me when athletes that didn't perform at a certain race where I had athletes on the podium complain that the training is not working.
Wow.
Do you not understand that you shouldn't train everyone the same. I get it, you don't want to have 50 different workouts but if you do a good job recruiting, ,there should be 2-3 kids on every team that are talented enough to do well no matter what the coaching is.
Having 2-3 studs doesn't make you a good caoch, it makes you a good recruiter. What percent of your roster is better now than they were in HS? It should be near 100% barring injury.
Rojo, the difference between you and me is the difference between an Olympic coach and a trust-fund internet troll that can't spell. I don't expect you do understand what I do. You couldn't even tell from my posts that I'm not a college coach.
It is easy to blame everything on the NCAA or the coaches at Oregon but Helen was a damn good coach. She built USF into a very good program (won a trophy I believe) and had a 10k national champion before going to Oregon.
Eating disorders are rough and there is seemly no “correct way” to handle them. Helen wasn’t weighing athletes, she wasn’t shaming people, she asked one clarifying question to an athlete.
I’d love to say everyone should have an amazing NCAA experience but it isn’t possible. Too competitive. A coach isn’t there to do whatever you want and only be supportive, never challenge you. Coaches are these to push the athletes forward and make the better. Be adult enough to go to your coach and have a training conversation.
There is literally nothing wrong with what the coach did. You can't honestly say a coach recommending a nutritionist is the cause of an eating disorder.
You have to realize as well that the girl's account is clearly exaggerated. A boring story does not get clicks or views. But even the exaggerated account of the facts shows nothing wrong.
Yeah, it's seemingly an unpopular opinion but I watched this video when it first came out, and when you couple what you already know of Philly (complains alot, sandbags constantly, always seems more interested in messing about than working hard, hasn't improved almost at all in the many years since college, is very self-focused etc) then it does make you question things about her story.
I don't know the coaches back then at Oregon, so I'm not being an apologist for them, but it sounds reasonable she was directed towards a nutritionalist, partly because of her history of ED, partly from her poor performances, but also because often college kids eat like crap, and not to intentionally back this up - but she has since lost weight
The whole bit at the end about the coach commenting on how when she leaves the focus can go back to being on the team, reiterates for me that she may have been a distraction goofing around, and maybe she just didnt realise how serious US collegiate sports would be, because lets be honest, even now at 27yo, she is v far from mature.
This video had a 90 second advertisement where she is personally selling a VPN, that tells you all you need to know about her personality.
This post may get deleted for pointing it out, but she did in fact gain a lot of weight at Oregon. At this point in time where she's healthy, she's probably 10 pounds lighter than she was at Oregon. You can tell just from the running clips in her own video. Her running at 16:58 in this video doesn't even look like her, her face looks totally different. And this is comparing her to NOW when she's healthy, not comparing her to when she had an ED.
She was an adult. People her age are on Marine boot camp being broken down mentally, emotionally, and physically because it builds character. She was just mentally weak.
One of the many uber-talented juniors that has coaches/personal expectations that drive to obsession. With obsession comes self-sabotage and a chance for a coach to reap the talents while dangerously towing the line of throwing the athlete back over the edge (in Phily's case, an ED).
Very sad. She was on Emma Abrahamson's pod and was quite candid about her younger years in running. Her story should be another in the long saga of why we have to pull the reins on young, talented, and driven runners as to not ruin them in their primes.
I ran at U of O, albeit years before this girl. What I can say is that it is a difficult place to be when things go off the rails. Months and months of rain, pretty much no sunlight from Halloween until outdoor track. If you are injured and sitting around watching your teammates workout and win races it is quite hard to see the bright side of the road. Eugene is not for everyone. Helen was not a good fit for U of O in the same way Ben Thomas wasn’t either. They did not produce cross country results. But blindly following a coach to a different college city that you’ve never visited is a decision that you own and blaming others is just a a bunch of baloney.
It's worth pointing out that her teammates were INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL in that 2019 year (Bowden's senior year). Jessica Hull won a national championship in the 1500 and Ejore got 4th in the 800. Baez placed 2nd in the 10k (then won the 10k after COVID). So the training was WORKING.
If this girl went to LRC's beloved Brosnan or Mike Smith and said "hey coach, I know my teammates are breaking records and winning championships, but I want to do different training than them" BOTH BROSNAN AND SMITH WOULD NOT CHANGE THE TRAINING. That's just facts.
Its not facts- I know Smith specifically changes training for specific athletes based off mid D vs long distance 10k types. Trust me he would listen
This is as far as I gotten reading so apologies if I'm behind in the discussion
This is very true. Geordie Beamish has talked about how Smith worked with him to figure out what worked best for him and was very okay with changing things, especially given how injury prone he was.
I always find it ironic when coaches at Oregon are so resistant to working with an athlete to find something that works but then bang on about Bill Bowerman like he wouldn't rip them a new as*hole for their self-absorption.
Which is funny because Bowerman was all about customizing and personalizing training to the individual
I ran at U of O, albeit years before this girl. What I can say is that it is a difficult place to be when things go off the rails. Months and months of rain, pretty much no sunlight from Halloween until outdoor track.
literally what every Brit experiences year-round, and she's British
If you were a real, respected coach, you would use your full name here as many others have.
From the general level of arrogance and pomposity, it sounds like Paulo Sousa, the triathlon coach. But given that Sousa is who Mary Cain chose to work with, it seems unlikely he'd be so dismissive of Bowden's experiences.
She in fact was extremely generous in explaining HLW's abuse. That woman was the reason the ducks had 8 of their team members quit or transfer between 2020 and 2021 and nobody seems to notice.
if anyone cared to look at the recruits from 2020 for example, only 1 stayed and didn't transfer out- and that athlete was constantly injured until recently where under Shalane she has nicely rebounded and is posting good times and running consistently
If you were a real, respected coach, you would use your full name here as many others have.
From the general level of arrogance and pomposity, it sounds like Paulo Sousa, the triathlon coach. But given that Sousa is who Mary Cain chose to work with, it seems unlikely he'd be so dismissive of Bowden's experiences.
I can send you a postcard from Paris and you'll find out who I am. How many postcards is it now?!
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