Khabib, and its not even close. Everyone you named lost multiple time, no one has ever beaten khabib.
How many people do MMA? Like nobody? Like 1% of 1% of 1% of athletes do MMA.
Well I do MMA, and from other discussions there are a few others here who 'do mma'. So far more than 1% of 1% of 1% of LetsRun - a running forum - 'do mma'. Personally, I know virtually zero males who haven't done some kind of combat sport training at some point in their lives.
It all depends on what you mean by 'do mma'. For a start, you're making the mistake in assuming that because (according to you) there are relatively few people 'doing mma' then the best in mma are the best of a small talent pool. It can still be the case that the best in the world are doing MMA, and Khabib is the best of them (and hence the world). Just because there might be a billion hobby joggers in the world compared to 100,000 or whatever 'doing MMA' in MMA gyms, doesn't mean that Jakob is necessarily a better athlete or from a wider talent pool than Khabib. The people doing MMA are likely to be the ones talented for MMA, and that includes the desire and capacity to give and receive physical trauma. You could take the entire field of London and Boston marathon competitors combined, and not one of them likely has a prayer of ever beating Khabib even if they had been trained in MMA since they were teens.
The top MMA competitions (namely the UFC) attract some of the best athletes from multiple sports - such as Olympian wrestlers, boxers, kickboxers etc etc.
A sport dominated by a tiny region in East Africa, and that we now know largely due to rampant doping there, and that pays the best maybe $100K a year, compared to $10 million a year for the best in MMA, isn't necessarily a bigger talent pool just because every kid 'runs' at some point.
The term Goat only applies to 3 people Ali, Jordan and Brady. All other uses of the term GOAT are unwarranted.
Please stop calling every Johnny Come Lately that has a little success the GOAT.
The overuse of the term GOAT is ridiculous.
Was Ali even the GOAT boxer? Most famous, for sure, and one of the best, but others won more fights, were more dominant, etc.
Well he was in opinion of many the greatest heavyweight boxer, and simply because of size, the greatest heavyweight can beat every other boxer. If running had weight classes, we might consider somebody like Craig Mottram the GOAT runner.
Ali also transcended his sport like no other athlete in history has.
How can Ali be the greatest when he lost to Joe Frazier? Gotta be undefeated.
People call him the greatest because he cleverly kept calling himself the greatest on TV. That's how PR works! Say something enough times and a lot of people believe it.
One of your most nonsensical posts. Ali beat Frazier twice. And the claim that you have to be undefeated to be the GOAT? What? You think Marciano at 5'10" 185 was the greatest heavyweight of all time because he's the only one that is undefeated? He wouldn't be in the top 100 heavyweights in the modern era. And no, he wasn't the pound for pound best heavy either.
Ali wouldnt be considered a goat if he didnt say it all the time, or was so controversial. He is among the few best and changed the division. But he was susceptible to a lot of good if not great fighters. But Im OK with him being a co-goat.
kipchoge, messi and eddie vedder all belong among the list
Cael Sanderson. 4 time national champ in 4 years at Iowa State, 159-0 record and gold medal (ncaa champs dont often get a medal). I would put him light years ahead of Karelin who leaned on people for 20 years. Voted second best individual athlete of all time by SI after jesse owens. But, maybe not as GOAT as eddie vedder I guess.
agree with Gretz, Phelps, Bolt, Kipchoge but no way on Jordan. Multiple boxers ahead of Ali (in other weight classes)
How can Ali be the greatest when he lost to Joe Frazier? Gotta be undefeated.
People call him the greatest because he cleverly kept calling himself the greatest on TV. That's how PR works! Say something enough times and a lot of people believe it.
And Joe Frazier got beat too...Rocky Marciano was the only undefeated Heavyweight champion...49-0
I dont get too excited about undefeated. Ray Leonard, Duran, Hearns, even the the Golden Boy had to go through hall of fame murderers row several times a year to win titles. Guys like Floyd Patterson (undefeated) fight once a year at most against carefully chosen opponents ducking their contemporaries. Some of the best fighters ever have 5 or 6 losses. Although to be fair, the Rock met up with some greats for sure.
Gretzky has 1,963 career assists. The guy with the second most points (assists PLUS goals) is at 1,921. Oh, and Gretzky has 894 goals too….
To be fair, with salary cap, there will never ever be a lineup like Gretz had or even close to it ever again. That was tailored made for Cups, Goals and assists. But he took advantage of it and yes he is the GOAT. He is probably the most lopsided GOAT by the numbers. As you said, throw out ALL his goals, he is still the all time points leader!!! Most unbreakable record.
And this is who WOULD be considered the tennis GOAT if it wasn't for a knife attack.
Consider this: Graf won 8 out of 9 Grand Slams from the Australian in 1988 through the Australian in 1990. She only won 2 of the next 12, which coincided with the rise of Seles. Seles won 8 of those 12 Grand Slams, beating Graf in the finals three times. One of the two Graf wins occurred when Seles did not compete at Wimbledon. After the attack, Graf went on to win the next four straight Grand Slams and won six total before Seles ever set foot on a court again. At the time of the knife attack, Seles was on a streak of three straight Australians, three straight French and two straight US Opens.
And Joe Frazier got beat too...Rocky Marciano was the only undefeated Heavyweight champion...49-0
I dont get too excited about undefeated. Ray Leonard, Duran, Hearns, even the the Golden Boy had to go through hall of fame murderers row several times a year to win titles. Guys like Floyd Patterson (undefeated) fight once a year at most against carefully chosen opponents ducking their contemporaries. Some of the best fighters ever have 5 or 6 losses. Although to be fair, the Rock met up with some greats for sure.
Marciano met up with Joe Louis when Louis was way past his prime. Archie Moore was a great light heavyweight but not close to being a great heavyweight. Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott were good, but not great heavies. Also undersized. Not saying Ali was the GOAT, just that Marciano was not.
The term Goat only applies to 3 people Ali, Jordan and Brady. All other uses of the term GOAT are unwarranted.
Please stop calling every Johnny Come Lately that has a little success the GOAT.
The overuse of the term GOAT is ridiculous.
Totally agree that GOAT is overused, although not nearly as overused or misused as the word iconic. That being said naming the GOAT is always fuel for great discussions. This has been one of the least contentious threads I've ever seen here, even with the wide variation in opinions. Here's my two cents. (I'll give away my age with these picks)
NBA - Chamberlain/Russell, take your pick. No other contenders.
NFL - Jim Brown, still nobody like him.
MLB - Only two truly iconic players, players who transcended the sport, Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. Ruth is the GOAT, even LeBron said so.
American women's track - Mary Decker. Racing and beating olympic silver medalists when she was 14. They're still chasing some of her records.
Indoor milers - Eamonn Coghlan. I'd like to see someone today run sub 3:50 on a TEN lap track.
The term Goat only applies to 3 people Ali, Jordan and Brady. All other uses of the term GOAT are unwarranted.
Please stop calling every Johnny Come Lately that has a little success the GOAT.
The overuse of the term GOAT is ridiculous.
I think the best way to define the GOATs is to ask experts such as players, coaches, journalists, very knowledgeable fans who is the best of all time, and only bestow goat status when there is an overwhelming consensus. Goats often have many records, championships, longevity and few losses, but they certainly don’t need to be undefeated or hold every mark.
Who really passes the overwhelming consensus barrier? Only a few.
Does Ali? No chance, he was great, but others like Sugar Ray Robinson would be serious picks. What about Jordan? Well, maybe. I think he’s a consensus choice, but would enough pick Wilt or Lebron or others to deprive him of this status? Brady seems to be the goat quarterback, but as a football player many would mention LT or Jim Brown or Rice, etc.
Who are clear Goats? Gretsky for one. Nobody in hockey will even mention another player in this context. Biles, yes. She may have choked in Tokyo, but nesr 100% of experts if asked who is the greatest female gymnast of all time will say Simone. Same for Serena. That would be a 100% consensus. Very few will reach this consensus bar, and of course it depends on how narrow the parameters are set. Kipchoge is undoubtedly the goat marathoner, but not distance runner. Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the goat wide receiver, but not football player, etc.
What do you mean he would "literally" go to town on them? Like, if they all got together outside of town, Bekele would leave and go to town? I think you mean "figuratively".
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Bill Russell yet.
Nobody will ever touch 11 Championships in one of the 4 big American sports.
When there were like 8 teams in the NBA and most guys had regular jobs on top pf playing. Russell would have been Alonzo Mourning in the more modern NBA. That's not a jab at Russell; Mourning is my all-time favorite player. But playing against guys like LeBron, Russell would not look so dominant.
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