You could teach your daughter the healthy perspective on sport as an extracurricular activity to do for fun and winning not being the most important thing. If you want her to feel it's the end of the world because she might not come out at the top in any context in life, I can't stop ya. Maybe don't involve her in chess, though, apples relative to trees.
I've heard this before. I have an uncle who also says dads should "teach their daughters that they shouldn't care so much about sports and winning" because he knows that girls aren't that good at sports. We all think he is a jerk.
Girls have the same right to experience success and win in sports as boys. That is literally why they have their own division.
Also, your suggestion to teach girls that wanting to win is not a "healthy perspective" is the most misogynist thing I've read on Letsrun this week, and that's saying a lot. You sound like the bigot on this issue... SHM.
Yes. It is misogynist if only girls are told winning is not the most important thing. But I am not sure whether that's what LRC VIP BFD is suggesting. If boys are also told the same thing, then I don't think it's misogynist.
You could teach your daughter the healthy perspective on sport as an extracurricular activity to do for fun and winning not being the most important thing. If you want her to feel it's the end of the world because she might not come out at the top in any context in life, I can't stop ya. Maybe don't involve her in chess, though, apples relative to trees.
I've heard this before. I have an uncle who also says dads should "teach their daughters that they shouldn't care so much about sports and winning" because he knows that girls aren't that good at sports. We all think he is a jerk.
Girls have the same right to experience success and win in sports as boys. That is literally why they have their own division.
Also, your suggestion to teach girls that wanting to win is not a "healthy perspective" is the most misogynist thing I've read on Letsrun this week, and that's saying a lot. You sound like the bigot on this issue... SHM.
You've convinced me by your selective misinterpretation, it's all in your head. Woe to your progeny. You can always hand down your participation trophies to her.
A dude just won the Canadian indoor 1500m women's masters event.
Typical LRC discourse on trans athletes. Yes, avrom, on these boards trans women athletes are treated with derision. They are misgendered, called predators, perverts, sociopaths, hucksters, cheaters…. or dudes. If you are looking for a group that has empathy for trans people and generally respects their rights, but just has issues about how to fairly include trans women athletes in competitive athletics, best to look elsewhere.
A simple scan of the posts in this and other threads, as well as the margin of upvotes vs downvotes, will show this is not true. 2:18 has 2 upvotes and 7 down votes. Compare that to avrom's post which has 18 upvotes and 4 down votes. That is pretty consistent through this thread and on other threads. And by repeating this "Letsrun is a place of intolerance", you actually may drive more tolerant voices away because they believe you.
Sure there are some strong anti-trans comments. But the posts that get the most upvotes are not the ones that are anti-trans, they are the ones that are very much focused on not allowing trans women to compete in women's events.
There is actually a very broad consensus on this issue on these boards and in the general population. Most people don't care how others want to identify, but they are not in favor of trans women in women's sports. Yes there are extremes on both ends who often grab all the attention because that's what extremes do, but they are a small group. And you do get more of one of the extremes on this board, but that is clearly not the most popular opinion.
Read the New York Times articles about some of these things. The posts most liked by readers, who obviously skew liberal, are ones that are pointedly against things like trans women participating in women's sports, and supportive of people like Martina Navratilova. And by a very, very wide margin.
This thread is utter nonsense. Disagree or point out something pertinent but not in line with the LRC group thinky line and they delete it. Snowflakes.
She's entitled to an opinion, and maybe they'll change the rules but for now the rules are what they are. Cry me a river
This thread is utter nonsense. Disagree or point out something pertinent but not in line with the LRC group thinky line and they delete it. Snowflakes.
She's entitled to an opinion, and maybe they'll change the rules but for now the rules are what they are. Cry me a river
Why? Personally, I feel like I post on both sides of this issue since there are valid points to be learned from all over the political spectrum, left and right. I post things that I know get down-voted by liberals and other things that the right-wingers down-vote for sure. Yet I never get anything deleted. I think if you phrase your ideas respectfully, you won't have any problem.
Don't attack individuals, don't write "woe to your progeny" about someone's kids, don't use slurs & insults (like Trump does), don't call people who have legitimate concerns "bigots" like the left is doing, and then honestly, you won't get deleted.
We can agree that this issue has a lot of nuance and attacking those of us who are trying to find a good solution is only going to prolong the time it takes to solve this problem.
This thread is utter nonsense. Disagree or point out something pertinent but not in line with the LRC group thinky line and they delete it. Snowflakes.
She's entitled to an opinion, and maybe they'll change the rules but for now the rules are what they are. Cry me a river
Why? Personally, I feel like I post on both sides of this issue since there are valid points to be learned from all over the political spectrum, left and right. I post things that I know get down-voted by liberals and other things that the right-wingers down-vote for sure. Yet I never get anything deleted. I think if you phrase your ideas respectfully, you won't have any problem.
Don't attack individuals, don't write "woe to your progeny" about someone's kids, don't use slurs & insults (like Trump does), don't call people who have legitimate concerns "bigots" like the left is doing, and then honestly, you won't get deleted.
We can agree that this issue has a lot of nuance and attacking those of us who are trying to find a good solution is only going to prolong the time it takes to solve this problem.
Agree that the issue does have nuance and is worthy of discussion The above post was in response to having 2 somewhat relevant posts removed in this thread. So it's not the discussion per se, it's the people that run this place.
This thread is utter nonsense. Disagree or point out something pertinent but not in line with the LRC group thinky line and they delete it. Snowflakes.
She's entitled to an opinion, and maybe they'll change the rules but for now the rules are what they are. Cry me a river
Why? Personally, I feel like I post on both sides of this issue since there are valid points to be learned from all over the political spectrum, left and right. I post things that I know get down-voted by liberals and other things that the right-wingers down-vote for sure. Yet I never get anything deleted. I think if you phrase your ideas respectfully, you won't have any problem.
Don't attack individuals, don't write "woe to your progeny" about someone's kids, don't use slurs & insults (like Trump does), don't call people who have legitimate concerns "bigots" like the left is doing, and then honestly, you won't get deleted.
We can agree that this issue has a lot of nuance and attacking those of us who are trying to find a good solution is only going to prolong the time it takes to solve this problem.
Don't be coy, you're far from innocent. You can dislike tone, but you initiated it and to deny that means you're ignorant or you're dishonest.
People keep looking at what’s happening now instead of looking in the future. Even if women sports was dominated by afew transwomen now, just think where it’ll be in 10-20 years if we keep allowing men into women sports. More and more will be in women sports and it’ll become a complete joke.
Why? Personally, I feel like I post on both sides of this issue since there are valid points to be learned from all over the political spectrum, left and right. I post things that I know get down-voted by liberals and other things that the right-wingers down-vote for sure. Yet I never get anything deleted. I think if you phrase your ideas respectfully, you won't have any problem.
Don't attack individuals, don't write "woe to your progeny" about someone's kids, don't use slurs & insults (like Trump does), don't call people who have legitimate concerns "bigots" like the left is doing, and then honestly, you won't get deleted.
We can agree that this issue has a lot of nuance and attacking those of us who are trying to find a good solution is only going to prolong the time it takes to solve this problem.
Don't be coy, you're far from innocent. You can dislike tone, but you initiated it and to deny that means you're ignorant or you're dishonest.
I will go with "ignorant" then since I don't really know what I wrote that was was disrespectful. I am one of those posters who is trying to change the tone on Letsrun by not being a troll about stuff.
I feel like I can do my part by posting only my honest, "best intended" thoughts as a life-long runner, parent of a runner, and spouse of a former runner. I try to be positive and fair in my posts, so I do apologize if I came across as rude or insincere.
I guess was surprised that you tried to give out parenting advice; that seemed a little off-base and felt unwarranted based on what I had said regarding my daughter's goals for herself as an athlete.
Needless to say, these threads are an imperfect medium for discussing real, serious issues, so I think we just have to assume best intent, right? It would be better to talk about this stuff out on a long run or over a pint, that's for sure!
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
Let me see if I have this straight: According to some posters, it’s okay for a biological male to think he’s female, but it’s NOT okay for a biological female to be competitive enough to want to win.
I have not followed this closely. I am aware of the swimmer she mentions. But she says:
"Increasingly, trans athletes are dominating women’s sports at all levels."
Is this really the case? What percentage of women's sports are now made up by trans athletes?
More than before and more every year, as trans ideology has wormed into science, medicine, education, everything. She might have phrased it better, and you’re absolutely right that it’s not super widespread yet, but it’s a worthy effort to stop this before it does actually get to that level. Others on here and elsewhere argue that because it’s only a few cases so far, we shouldn’t do anything about it. (I could predict in advance which particular LRC poster will be along shortly to make that exact argument, in fact). I’d argue we need to decide finally whether ANY trans women are okay in women’s sports and either say no more, or open the floodgates. Good on another elite for speaking up.
Referring to the acceptance of medical care for transgender people as “worming” tells anyone who isn’t a bigot exactly what you are implying. Sports are just the most convenient battleground for you to dehumanize people whose gender presentation upsets your inability to learn or grow from the “ideology” you were indoctrinated with a kid.
Referring to the acceptance of medical care for transgender people as “worming” tells anyone who isn’t a bigot exactly what you are implying. Sports are just the most convenient battleground for you to dehumanize people whose gender presentation upsets your inability to learn or grow from the “ideology” you were indoctrinated with a kid.
Does anyone ever argue against medical care though? Camouflaging mental illness as some kind of post-modern 'gender identity' schtick is what people react negatively to.
- Gender identity is probably the most narcissistic concept ever invented. Claiming to identify as something may mean something in your own version of reality, but that doesn't mean it's real.
- Genes are genes. Amputations can be a way to preserve the rest of the host in certain circumstances, but your genes remain the same. Sex change is not possible (at least not today). That being said, feel free to mutilate yourself but don't expect people to see anything else than unchecked mental illness.
People should have access to the medical care they feel they need. Do your own thing. No one cares. Just don't expect people to actually believe that this is something else than mental illness. Don't claim access to restricted classes (women's sports) and restricted spaces (women's changing rooms).
People keep looking at what’s happening now instead of looking in the future. Even if women sports was dominated by afew transwomen now, just think where it’ll be in 10-20 years if we keep allowing men into women sports. More and more will be in women sports and it’ll become a complete joke.
The number of transgender female athletes competing at an elite level increased from zero to one and now back to zero. What trend am I missing?
Sports are just the most convenient battleground for you to dehumanize people whose gender presentation upsets your inability to learn or grow from the “ideology” you were indoctrinated with a kid.
You are right, some people here are against the notion of trans-ness in general, but for the part most, the up-voted posters are not concerned about "ideology" but rather the fact that women are about 10% slower and weaker than men at every distance and in every sport.
That is not an ideology. That is just a physical reality. Women know this, so in the era of second wave feminism, they pushed to get their own competitions (Title IX). If males who identify as women enter that space, they will dominate it. Biological women have every right to expect that space to be protected, just like the masters and juniors divisions.
We have seen this issue in swimming, weightlifting, cycling, sprinting, the 800m, and every other sport where DSD and trans-women (which are not the same thing, by they way) have entered the competitive space. Where, in your view, is an "ideology" coming into that concern? It feels like biology to me.
This post was edited 39 seconds after it was posted.
Reason provided:
I think I must do typos on purpose
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