Can you imagine if LetsRun existed during LASSE Viren’s career?

So you wouldn't exist in a 70's letsrun. I would be telling letsrun to expect great things in the future with the goat which is going to be born in Bekoji on 13th June 1982. People would think I'm talking about a descendent of Abebe Bikila since he was the only known Ethiophian back then

Who could have predicted this pseudo-witty non-response? Oh, I did.

Lasse Viren did under 13:00 in trainers once. On the concrete and looking completely relaxed.

I suppose the bigger reason why most would be saying blood doping doesn't matter is because blood transfusions and reindeer milk were not banned methods and substances during Viren's career. Blood transfusions were only banned a decade later in 1985, and reindeer milk was permitted then and is permitted by WADA today.

If today's belief that only doping can explain unprecedented performance and winning also existed in Viren's day, it wouldn't take long for extreme believers to point the finger at Lydiard as the common denominator for Viren's success and his unprecedented squad of Lydiard's boys -- only succeeding by virtue of being able to outdope the world, in these remote regions of the world beyond the reach of testers. People will mock slogans like "Champions are everywhere", and excuses like high mileage and fartlek -- training methods which existed long before -- and honorary titles like "Father of Jogging" will become a euphemism for "Father of Doping". Then, as time moves on, Lydiard's Boys and the "Flying Finn" (wink-wink) will be lumped together with the likes of the East Germany, Ma's Army, and Russian race-walkers. And the threads will spiral out of control as we debate what constitutes reality versus baseless fantasy posing as reality.

I cannot imagine. I was lucky enough to be in the stands in Montreal. The 5000 was amazing. The faces on the top 4 the final lap a famous photo. Viren ran smart and well. Was he cheating? Unknown. But I had a few runner friends who ran on emotional fuel as well as talent and were different runners (better) when it really counted. Dug deep and then deeper still.

What a colorful imagination.

As far as I have ever seen, speculation of Viren was limited to blood transfusions, and never extended to real substance abuse, where "accidental and unintentional" "contamination" might be a relevant defense.

Note, that IOC testing from 1968 only involved stimulants and only in 1974 could testing detect steroids. Testosterone wasn't specifically prohibited until 1979.

Ideas like "accidental and unintentional" are relevant today, and since 2015, "Intent" became increasingly relevant for the athlete, thanks to WADA shifting the burden to the athlete, but as the WADA Code, where these terms are relevant, didn't exist until 2003, it is unclear what the anti-doping standards and policies of the IOC and the IAAF were during Viren's career.

Are you kidding me? People would ignore Lasse Viren completely for some NCAA 2. place finisher that would for sure beat Viren at the next olympics.

Lasse Viren menee kotiin tuhoutuneena

Excellent that you were there. And as Rekrunner pointed out, if Viren was cheating by blood doping he wasn’t actually breaking the rules, and even if he was doping, this doesn’t mean he couldn’t also have run on that emotional fuel you alluded to, that ability to dig deeper when it really counts. My understanding is Viren wasn’t necessarily known for his sprint speed as much as his ability to wind it up from a ways out and hold everybody off.

It was still doping and considered cheating by his rivals. His success was down to doping.

https://www.nytimes.com/1976/08/01/archives/the-blood-scandal.html

I linked the article earlier in the thread. Are you for real?

Viren actually did race quite a bit 76-79 - see The great distance runners " link Viren's racing schedule. IE 77-peachtree, Fukuoka.. 78 -NYC mar., Lynchburg 10m , Youngstown 25km..79 - Clev 10km , New Orleans 10 km , Brussels Track 10,000 28:04

I never realized that Viren probably could have won the 1976 Olympic Marathon.

July 23 28:14

July 26 27:40

July 28 13:33

July 30 13:24

July 31. 2:13:11 5th place and 3:16 behind Gold

Wow…a fresh Viren probably wins Marathon gold.

I didn't go back and check my running magazines from the early 1970's (e.g., T&FN, RW, RT, etc.) but I recall that there was considerable speculation about blood doping -- which was not illegal at the time -- and steroids, the latter more for '76. There was, I think, some belief at the time that steroids only helped weight-lifters and sprinters, but Cierpinski's win raised a lot of eyebrows, more than Viren.

Thank you. I suspected as much.

Speaking there of baseless fantasy.

One longs for 1976, knowing you weren't there.

This assumes he was doping, and that blood doping would have helped him succeed (more than his training, including 3 months at altitude). Only with these two unproven assumptions can you conclude his success was down to doping.

That is the analogy, bravo. Some "extreme believer" would try to say that all "success is down to doping", and I would be the one challenging whether that was reality or baseless fantasy.

Well done. Gold star for you.