El Guerrouj's 55th fastest 1500 is faster than Coe's 2nd fastest. El G is no. 1 and it' s undisputed. Morceli is no. 2, also by big margin.
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There is a blatantly obvious reason why EL G ran so many fast times (and why the only 3:26/3:43 times were run in that late 90's period - with the exception of the convicted doper Kiprop years later), and I'll let you figure that out for yourself.
So then why do you put him at #2? Why not just remove him totally from the list?
It seems a bit disingenuous to say “well Coe would’ve been faster if he was on the dope El G was on” and then put El G at #2. You either rank him or you don’t, imo.
There is a blatantly obvious reason why EL G ran so many fast times (and why the only 3:26/3:43 times were run in that late 90's period - with the exception of the convicted doper Kiprop years later), and I'll let you figure that out for yourself.
So then why do you put him at #2? Why not just remove him totally from the list?
It seems a bit disingenuous to say “well Coe would’ve been faster if he was on the dope El G was on” and then put El G at #2. You either rank him or you don’t, imo.
Well an argument here is often made that everybody was on EPO, so if you believe that, then you could still claim his dominance wasn't down to drugs, even if his otherworldly times were.
So then why do you put him at #2? Why not just remove him totally from the list?
It seems a bit disingenuous to say “well Coe would’ve been faster if he was on the dope El G was on” and then put El G at #2. You either rank him or you don’t, imo.
Well an argument here is often made that everybody was on EPO, so if you believe that, then you could still claim his dominance wasn't down to drugs, even if his otherworldly times were.
Then he has to be #1. There’s simply no way no pretend he isn’t.
I tried cobbling together a preliminary top-30 (since the 1948 London Olympics only).
1. Hicham El Guerrouj 2. Noureddine Morceli 3. Sebastian Coe 4. Steve Cram 5. John Walker 6. Kip Keino 7. Bernard Lagat 8. Steve Ovett 9. Herb Elliott 10. Peter Snell 11. Said Aouita 12. Timothy Cheruiyot 13. Jakob Ingrebrigtsen 14. Noah Ngeny 15. Jim Ryun 16. Fermín Cacho 17. Taoufik Makhloufi 18. Filbert Bayi 19. Roger Bannister 20. Abdi Bile 21. Silas Kiplagat 22. Steve Scott 23. Nick Willis 24. Matt Centrowitz Jr. 25. Abdelaati Iguider 26. Michel Jazy 27. Mehdi Baala 28. Venuste Niyongabo 29. John Landy 30. Daniel Komen
Current athletes on watch: Jake Wightman Mohamed Katir Josh Kerr
Could you bring the formula used to get this classification? Said Aouita 2 times IAAF athlete of the year, 4 times Global winner of IAAF meetings, raised under extremely bad conditions. That's nothing for you.
Instead you choose the "coved" Brit runners?
I can't decide if you are just Aouita's biggest fan, or maybe you actually are Aouita. Every time you bring him up in this fawning manner (and you do this predictably often), I feel compelled to point out that his coaching career in Australia ended abruptly after he pushed his athletes to take PEDs. Others on this list may or may not have used PEDs, but with Aouita we have a fair bit of certainty where he stood on this issue, leaving all of his glorious achievements tainted.
I tried cobbling together a preliminary top-30 (since the 1948 London Olympics only).
1. Hicham El Guerrouj 2. Noureddine Morceli 3. Sebastian Coe 4. Steve Cram 5. John Walker 6. Kip Keino 7. Bernard Lagat 8. Steve Ovett 9. Herb Elliott 10. Peter Snell 11. Said Aouita 12. Timothy Cheruiyot 13. Jakob Ingrebrigtsen 14. Noah Ngeny 15. Jim Ryun 16. Fermín Cacho 17. Taoufik Makhloufi 18. Filbert Bayi 19. Roger Bannister 20. Abdi Bile 21. Silas Kiplagat 22. Steve Scott 23. Nick Willis 24. Matt Centrowitz Jr. 25. Abdelaati Iguider 26. Michel Jazy 27. Mehdi Baala 28. Venuste Niyongabo 29. John Landy 30. Daniel Komen
Current athletes on watch: Jake Wightman Mohamed Katir Josh Kerr
JWH - I don't know where to start pulling this apart
What, so you’re not going to specify any criticism or offer any argument at all?
There is a blatantly obvious reason why EL G ran so many fast times (and why the only 3:26/3:43 times were run in that late 90's period - with the exception of the convicted doper Kiprop years later), and I'll let you figure that out for yourself.
So then why do you put him at #2? Why not just remove him totally from the list?
It seems a bit disingenuous to say “well Coe would’ve been faster if he was on the dope El G was on” and then put El G at #2. You either rank him or you don’t, imo.
Where have I written (or implied) "well Coe would've been faster if he was on the dope EL G was on?" I haven't. I've mentioned that EL G was likely on EPO, which would explain why he (and others in that period) were able to run so many fast races in a season of short recoveries. I actually think Coe was capable of 3:28 flat had he been afforded the sort of metronomic pacing EL G enjoyed in the late 90's.
And you explain exactly why I put EL G at no. 2, despite all his World titles and series of super fast times. Yet for all my doubts, I have no proof he doped and I can assure you there would be a few others on my list that I have suspicions about. As I said, there is clearly an argument to be made for EL G being the GOAT, but rather than remove him from the list completely, I chose to temper his incredible achievements with the likelyhood he was doping.
Need to be an Olympic Champion at 1500m and world record holder in the mile to be considered.
Coe and El G for sure.
Bannister might get an exception for bringing such fame to the event.
Ovett and Cram get disqualified without that Oly Gold, though they had great Mike careers
Morceli, Elliot, Snell, Walker would fight for a spot or two.
They should also have held the 1500m WR as well as the mile. That would remove Snell and Walker. And of the top 2 criteria you cite, Coe has the most Olympic titles over 1500 and the most WRs over the mile.