One thing I couldn't help noticing is that all the pros except Ajee Wilson were all former NCAA collegiate runners. Wouldn't it stand to reason that as these ladies age and retire from competitive running, they are replaced by new pros, who come from today's NCAA leaders?
Similarly, as all these ladies now run faster as pros, wouldn't today's collegians also improve their times when they turn pro and reach their prime athletic years?
Tuohy holds the U20 record in the indoor 3000m event in 8:54, so some of the data you have here is incorrect.
U20 US i3000m record 1 8:54.18 Katelyn TUOHY 18 MAR 2002 USA 4f1 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 04 DEC 2021 1148 2 8:58.88 Elise CRANNY 09 MAY 1996 USA 2 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 14 MAR 2015 1132 3 9:04.55 Brynn BROWN 27 AUG 2003 USA 3f2 Rector Fieldhouse, Blacksburg, VA (USA) 26 FEB 2022 1112 4 9:07.06 Alyson CHURCHILL 11 JUN 2002 USA 3f2 Clemson Indoor Track & Field Complex, Clemson, SC (USA) 27 FEB 2021 1104 5 9:07.14 Marlee STARLIPER 21 JUL 2002 USA 7f1 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 14 FEB 2020 1103 6 9:07.95 Sydney THORVALDSON 07 MAR 2003 USA 7f2 Gilliam Indoor Track, College Station, TX (USA) 26 FEB 2022 1101 7 9:08.54 Ellie SHEA 06 SEP 2005 USA 2f1 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 27 FEB 2022 1099 8 9:09.87 Katie RAINSBERGER 18 AUG 1998 USA 3 College Station, TX (USA) 11 MAR 2017 1094 9 9:10.74 Kelsey CHMIEL 01 AUG 2001 USA 5f2 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 14 FEB 2020 1091 10 9:11.14 Anna ROHRER 24 FEB 1997 USA 2f2 Boston, MA (USA) 27 FEB 2016 1090 11 9:11.55 Justa DAHL 08 JUL 1979 USA 3 Atlanta, GA (USA) 28 FEB 1997 1089 12 9:14.12 Kate MURPHY 15 AUG 1999 USA 1f1 NY (USA) 07 JAN 2017 1080 13 9:15.56 Aisling CUFFE 12 SEP 1993 USA 2 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 28 JAN 2012 1075 14 9:16.12 Laurynne CHETELAT 18 FEB 1990 USA 7 College Station, TX (USA) 14 MAR 2009 1073 15 9:16.36 Grace HARTMAN USA 7f2 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 03 DEC 2022 1072 16 9:16.59 Amy MORTIMER 16 AUG 1981 USA 2 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 11 MAR 2000 1072 17 9:16.83 Bethany BREWSTER 18 FEB 1983 USA 3 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 10 MAR 2001 1071 18 9:18.24 Molly HUDDLE 31 AUG 1984 USA 2 Syracuse, NY (USA) 23 FEB 2003 1066 19 9:19.37 Riley CHAMBERLAIN USA 8f2 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 03 DEC 2022 1062 20 9:20.51 Lindsey SCHERF 18 SEP 1986 USA 1 Cambridge, MA (USA) 10 DEC 2005 1059 21 9:20.62 Lauren FLESHMAN 26 SEP 1981 USA 6 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 11 MAR 2000 1058 22 9:21.30 Heidi NIELSON 22 MAY 2003 USA 5f2 Randal Tyson Indoor Center, Fayetteville, AR (USA) 29 JAN 2022 1056 23 9:22.08 Megan CURHAM 17 APR 1995 USA 2f2 Hanover, NH (USA) 02 MAR 2014 1053 24 9:22.59 Katie FLOOD 29 FEB 1992 USA 10 College Station, TX (USA) 12 MAR 2011 1052 25 9:23.48 Megan GOETHALS 08 JUL 1992 USA 13 College Station, TX (USA) 12 MAR 2011 1049 26 9:23.84 Kristen HENEHAN 06 JUL 1979 USA 1 Roxbury, MA (USA) 08 MAR 1998 1048 27 9:24.52 Erin SULLIVAN 29 MAR 1981 USA 12 Boston, MA (USA) 30 JAN 2000 1045 28 9:24.53 Haley HERBERG 17 JAN 2000 USA 2f3 New York, NY (USA) 26 JAN 2019 1045 29 9:24.70 Emily STITES 02 JUN 1994 USA 2 Newport News, VA (USA) 07 DEC 2013 1045 30 9:24.78 Gionna QUARZO USA 1f1 Liberty Indoor Complex, Lynchburg, VA (USA) 11 FEB 2022 1045 31 9:25.31 Karissa SCHWEIZER 04 MAY 1996 USA 2f5 New York, NY (USA) 31 JAN 2015 1043 32 9:25.37 Kathleen MCCAFFERTY 14 MAR 1990 USA 5f2 New York, NY (USA) 07 FEB 2009 1043 33 9:25.83 Cayden DAWSON USA 12f2 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 03 DEC 2022 1041 34 9:25.87 Samantha NADEL 05 JUN 1994 USA 4 University Park, PA (USA) 26 JAN 2013 1041 34 9:25.87 Elizabeth CHIKOTAS 05 APR 1996 USA 2 University Park, PA (USA) 31 JAN 2015 1041 36 9:26.36 Sharlyn MAUGHAN 11 JUL 1979 USA 4 Indianapolis, IN (USA) 14 MAR 1998 1039 37 9:26.93 Lindsay ZINN 30 JUL 1983 USA 1 University Park, PA (USA) 23 FEB 2002 1038 38 9:27.14 Emily JONES 17 JAN 1991 USA 3 New York, NY (USA) 05 MAR 2010 1037 39 9:27.18 Caroline ALCORTA 27 MAY 1996 USA 9f2 Blacksburg, VA (USA) 28 FEB 2015 1037 40 9:27.24 Jessica TONN 15 FEB 1992 USA 3 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 29 JAN 2011 1036 41 9:27.53 Clara HOROWITZ-PETERSON 26 JAN 1984 USA 2 Boston, MA (USA) 09 MAR 2003 1036 42 9:27.66 Taylor WERNER 01 MAY 1998 USA 14 College Station, TX (USA) 11 MAR 2017 1035 43 9:27.98 Jordann MCDERMITT 23 APR 1996 USA 1 Mount Pleasant, MI (USA) 28 FEB 2015 1034 44 9:28.14 Devin CLARK 10 JUN 1997 USA 6f2 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 26 FEB 2016 1034 45 9:28.23 Shelby GREANY 01 APR 1991 USA 5 New York, NY (USA) 21 FEB 2010 1033 46 9:28.27 Rachel JOHNSON 30 APR 1993 USA 1 New York, NY (USA) 04 FEB 2012 1033 47 9:28.38 Paige DUCA 05 AUG 1997 USA 1f1 Boston, MA (USA) 03 DEC 2016 1033 48 9:28.74 Kaitlin FLATTMANN 03 MAR 1993 USA 9 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 28 JAN 2012 1032 49 9:29.68 Tracey BRAUKSIECK 24 APR 1984 USA 3 Boston, MA (USA) 09 MAR 2003 1029 50 9:29.78 Lindsay CREVOISERAT 09 FEB 1993 USA 1 New York, NY (USA) 14 JAN 2012 1028 51 9:29.85 Kaitlyn NEAL USA 1f2 Ithaca, NY (USA) 05 MAR 2016 1028 52 9:29.88 Hannah DAVIDSON 15 APR 1990 USA 4 Boston, MA (USA) 08 MAR 2009 1028 53 9:29.94 Erin BEDELL 22 MAY 1987 USA 1 Lincoln, NE (USA) 25 FEB 2006 1028 54 9:30.04 Katie LEMBO 11 APR 1996 USA 10f1 Boston, MA (USA) 30 JAN 2015 1027 55 9:30.36 Gabrielle ORIE USA 2f2 Boston, MA (USA) 04 MAR 2018 1026 56 9:30.50 Amanda VESTRI 01 SEP 1999 USA 3 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 27 JAN 2018 1026 57 9:30.62 Madeline MORGAN 01 APR 1991 USA 3f1 Blacksburg, VA (USA) 27 FEB 2010 1025 58 9:30.65 Regan ROME 26 MAR 1996 USA 3f2 Boston, MA (USA) 08 MAR 2015 1025 59 9:30.93 Addison STEVENSON 02 MAY 2003 USA 4f1 Gilliam Indoor Track, College Station, TX (USA) 26 FEB 2022 1024 60 9:31.63 Elly HENES 13 OCT 1998 USA 3f1 Clemson, SC (USA) 28 JAN 2017 1022 61 9:31.85 Maria CICERO 01 MAY 1983 USA 1 Allston, MA (USA) 08 DEC 2002 1021 62 9:32.01 Catherine WHITE 24 JUL 1989 USA 2 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 02 MAR 2008 1021 63 9:32.28 Lauren SARA 31 MAR 1992 USA 1f1 Boston, MA (USA) 06 MAR 2011 1020 64 9:32.42 Georgia PORTER USA 8 Birmingham, AL (USA) 11 MAR 2017 1020 65 9:32.71 Claire HOWLETT 08 OCT 1996 USA 10 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 31 JAN 2015 1019 66 9:33.08 Jill WHITMAN 14 JAN 1996 USA 1 Bloomington, IN (USA) 23 JAN 2015 1017 67 9:33.20 Sara HALL 15 APR 1983 USA 6 Boston, MA (USA) 25 JAN 2002 1017 68 9:33.31 Grace CONNOLLY 22 JAN 2001 USA 4 Randal Tyson Indoor Center, Fayetteville, AR (USA) 01 FEB 2020 1017 69 9:33.36 Grace TINKEY 20 JUN 1995 USA 2f1 Winston Salem, NC (USA) 06 FEB 2014 1017 70 9:33.41 Shannon ROWBURY 19 SEP 1984 USA 2 Chapel Hill, NC (USA) 25 JAN 2003 1016 71 9:33.42 Bona JONES 13 JUL 1988 USA 10 New York, NY (USA) 03 FEB 2007 1016 72 9:33.49 Maryann GONG 07 JAN 1996 USA 3f2 Boston, MA (USA) 30 JAN 2015 1016 73 9:33.51 Abbe GOLDSTEIN 18 JUN 1999 USA 12f1 Boston, MA (USA) 09 FEB 2018 1016 74 9:33.61 Abbey WHEELER 29 OCT 1998 USA 3f1 Boston, MA (USA) 27 JAN 2017 1016 75 9:33.62 Samantha DROP 07 OCT 1998 USA 2 College Station, TX (USA) 21 JAN 2017 1016 76 9:34.11 Sarah DISANZA 22 AUG 1995 USA 1 Madison, WI (USA) 25 JAN 2014 1014 77 9:34.52 Karrie BALOGA 03 OCT 2005 USA 1f2 Ocean Breeze Athl. Complex, New York, NY (USA) 07 MAR 2020 1013 78 9:34.61 Victoria GERLACH 02 JUN 1994 USA 6 University Park, PA (USA) 26 JAN 2013 1012 78 9:34.61 Ella KURTO USA 2f2 Ocean Breeze Athl. Complex, New York, NY (USA) 07 MAR 2020 1012 80 9:34.95 Hannah ONEDA 14 AUG 1994 USA 7 University Park, PA (USA) 26 JAN 2013 1011 81 9:35.03 Judy PENDERGAST 22 JAN 1998 USA 2f2 New York, NY (USA) 25 FEB 2017 1011 82 9:35.50 Jessica LAWSON 25 JAN 1999 USA 2f2 Ithaca, NY (USA) 05 MAR 2016 1010 83 9:35.53 Caitlin CHRISMAN 21 NOV 1988 USA 5 Chapel Hill, NC (USA) 19 FEB 2005 1010 84 9:35.96 Danielle ORIE 13 JAN 1999 USA 7f2 Boston, MA (USA) 09 FEB 2018 1008 85 9:36.18 Rachel PATTERSON USA 5 Albuquerque, NM (USA) 02 MAR 2013 1007 86 9:36.25 Cory Ann MCGEE 29 MAY 1992 USA 8 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 26 FEB 2011 1007 87 9:36.40 Juliet BOTTORFF 29 JAN 1991 USA 5f1 Blacksburg, VA (USA) 27 FEB 2010 1007 88 9:36.45 Tess BARRETT 09 FEB 1996 USA 1 University Park, PA (USA) 01 MAR 2014 1007 89 9:36.62 Abbey COOPER 25 MAY 1992 USA 4f2 Boston, MA (USA) 06 MAR 2011 1006 90 9:36.67 Nicole BLOOD 25 APR 1988 USA 1 Hanover, NH (USA) 08 JAN 2006 1006 91 9:36.81 Abby GRAY 08 MAY 1998 USA 6 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 28 JAN 2017 1005 92 9:37.14 Cassie HUNT 06 MAR 1985 USA 1 Champaign, IL (USA) 31 JAN 2004 1004 93 9:37.34 Harper MCCLAIN 06 MAY 2003 USA 4 Gately Indoor TF Center, Chicago, IL (USA) 12 FEB 2022 1004 94 9:37.42 Liz AWTREY 04 MAR 1981 USA 5 Syracuse, NY (USA) 20 FEB 2000 1003 95 9:37.43 Penny SPLICHAL 23 APR 1983 USA 3 Fayetteville, AR (USA) 23 FEB 2002 1003 96 9:37.56 Tara CHAPLIN 30 OCT 1980 USA 12 Indianapolis, IN (USA) 06 MAR 1999 1003 97 9:37.72 Molly WILLIAMS USA 4 New York, NY (USA) 08 FEB 2014 1002 98 9:37.80 Rebekah WALTER 27 MAR 1984 USA 1 Ann Arbor, MI (USA) 18 JAN 2003 1002 99 9:37.84 Cack FERRELL 21 JUN 1984 USA 4 Hanover, NH (USA) 02 MAR 2003 1002 100 9:38.00 Molly MCKENNA 1999 USA 8f2 Boston, MA (USA) 05 MAR 2017 1002
For whatever reasons (the only obvious one are shoes, doping has been around forever so it cannot easily explain recent changes) the depth in the women in the 5000/10000m has increased in the last 5-7 years, so it has become considerably harder to get to the Olympics, and additionally American women have become much better, so it's harder to get into a team.
Rio 2016 entry standards were 4:07, 15:24, 32:15, look up the current ones (and even with qualifying via the ranking one will need probably 4:03, 15:00, 31:00). Houlihan got into the 5000m final with 15:19 in her heat, ran 15:08 in the final, so Tuohy would have not been far from this only 6-7 years ago. But in 2019, 21, 22 one had to run close to 15:00 min. to get into the final. And even a best around 15:00 will not be enough to get into the US team. 6/10 and 12/20 top US women's best times in the 5000m were achieved in the last 3 years!
And the best US female track distance runners will only be 26-29 in 2024, so it will get really hard for the younger ones to get on a team.
As a wide range of values has been reported for the relative energetics of 400-m and 800-m track running events, this study aimed to quantify the respective aerobic and anaerobic energy contributions to these events during tr...
One thing I couldn't help noticing is that all the pros except Ajee Wilson were all former NCAA collegiate runners. Wouldn't it stand to reason that as these ladies age and retire from competitive running, they are replaced by new pros, who come from today's NCAA leaders?
Similarly, as all these ladies now run faster as pros, wouldn't today's collegians also improve their times when they turn pro and reach their prime athletic years?
You raise a good point. They are almost all former NCAA athletes, but then in the United States, very few distance athletes have ever turned pro prior to college (Mary Cain, Alexa Efraimson, A'jee Wilson, and that may be it), and 2 of the 3 got worse after high school. If any current female NCAA athletes make US teams in the distances, it's much more likely to happen in 2024 and beyond than in 2023, because they have a long way to go and most do not make those kinds of leaps. I think they will both make US teams eventually, but who knows? Valby is more likely to hit a qualifier in the 5000m in 2023. Tuohy has a shot at that, but it will be tough. She has a better shot at the 1500m qualifier.
No, it's not incorrect. Those lists are for 2022, not 2021.
Nope. You are the one who is incorrect. this list is for all time in US U20 i3000m. Tuohy holds the U20 record in the i3000 for the US. That is not disputed. She ran it in December 4 2021 BU meet and broke the record.
United States Junior records in athletics are the best marks set in an event by an athlete who holds American citizenship and who has not yet reached their 20th birthday in the given year of competition. As of August 2018 the...
Nobody said it would be easy, but I still strongly believe that the next crop of USA women's distance runners will come from the NCAA. Think Sage Hurta. Where else can they come from? US club system, high school stars, naturalized Africans, trans athletes? The current 20-22 yr old college runners will all be 27-29 at some point as well. Hint: about 7 years.
But it's still far more frequent to have national/world class 800m runners at 18-21 than for 5000m.
All-time men's best 5000m +=intermediate time in 10 000m race (official, unofficial or estimates
1 12:35.36 Joshua Cheptegei UGA 12.09.96 1 Monaco 14.08.2020 age 23
2 12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Hengelo 31.05.2004 age 21
3 12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 13.06.1998 age 25
4 12:39.74 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997 age 21
5 12:40.18 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005 age 23
6 12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 13.08.1997 age 24
7 12:43.02 Selemon Barega ETH 20.01.00 1 Bruxelles 31.08.2018 age 18
8 12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 16.08.1995 age 22
9 12:44.90 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 2 Zürich 13.08.1997 age 21
10 12:45.09 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Zürich 14.08.1996 age 20
11 12:45.71 Jacob Krop KEN 04.06.01 1 Bruxelles 02.09.2022 age 21
12 12:45.82 Hagos Gebrhiwet ETH 11.05.94 2 Bruxelles 31.08.2018 age 24
13 12:46.33 Nicholas Kimeli KEN 29.09.98 1 Roma 09.06.2022 age 23
14 12:46.53 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Roma 02.07.2004 age 19
15 12:46.79 Yomif Kejelcha ETH 01.08.97 3 Bruxelles 31.08.2018 age 21
15 12:46.79 Jacob Krop KEN 04.06.01 2 Roma 09.06.2022 age 21
17 12:46.81 Dejen Gebremeskel ETH 24.11.89 1 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012 age 22
18 12:46.96 Grant Fisher USA 22.04.97 2 Bruxelles 02.09.2022 age 25
19 12:47.04 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 2 Roma 02.07.2004 age 21
20 12:47.20 Mohammed Ahmed CAN 05.01.91 1 Portland 10.07.2020 age 29!
21 12:47.53 Hagos Gebrhiwet ETH 11.05.94 2 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012 age 18
22 12:48.09 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2006 age 24
23 12:48.25 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zürich 18.08.2006 age 24
24 12:48.45 Jakob Ingebrigtsen NOR 19.09.00 1 Firenze 10.06.2021 age 20
25 12:48.63 Jacob Kiplimo UGA 14.11.00 1 Ostrava 08.09.2020 age 19
26 12:48.64 Isiah Koech KEN 19.12.93 3 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012 age 18
27 12:48.66 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 2 Zürich 18.08.2006 age 22
28 12:48.77 Yenew Alamirew ETH 27.05.90 4 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012 age 22
29 12:48.81 Stephen Cherono KEN 15.10.82 1 Ostrava 12.06.2003 age 20
30 12:48.98 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Roma 05.06.1997 age 21
31 12:49.02 Hagos Gebrhiwet ETH 11.05.94 2 Firenze 10.06.2021 age 27
32 12:49.04 Thomas Longosiwa KEN 14.01.82 5 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012 age 30!
33 12:49.08 Selemon Barega ETH 20.01.00 2 Ostrava 08.09.2020 age 20
34 12:49.28 Brahim Lahlafi MAR 15.04.68 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2000 age 32!!
35 12:49.50 John Kipkoech KEN 29.12.91 6 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012 age 20
36 12:49.53 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zaragoza 28.07.2007 age 25
37 12:49.64 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 11.08.1999 age 26
38 12:49.71 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Bruxelles 25.08.2000 age 29! (EPO+)
39 12:49.87 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 3 Zürich 13.08.1997 age 28
You were saying ...? These are all the sub-12:50 performances. The outliers are the ones in their late 20s and early 30s. Many of the mid-20s performances are notably by those who ran faster younger than that. Of course, you can respond that they aren't really the ages they say they are, which may be true for a number of them, but then this is the database we have, and if Kipchoge wasn't 19 at the time, he couldn't have been much older, given that he just ran another marathon world record 19 years later.
Neither disingenuous, nor erroneous. That was simply a ranking of American distance performances in 2022 and where the top American collegians ranked this year. They were far off the level to qualify for American teams.
The context was obviously US women not East African men. Your point might be correct but utterly irrelevant for this thread. There is also Jakob Ingebrigsten but in the rest of the world and generally it is true that 20 year olds are more frequent in national/world class 800m runners than in the 5000m.
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