Yes I believe what I say. Penalties are a joke. Imagine if Argentina had lost in the quarters in penalties. There is no need for them since with modern technology we can expand goals..
People say they are dramatic. You don't think a golden goal would be even more dramatic?
Or let's take that logi and apply it toa ll sports. Wouldn't a free throw contest in the NBA be equally dramatic? No double overtime. If it's tied, we shoot free throws.
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My #1 preference for all games in the World Cup - but particularly the final - is simple - play until their is a goal with normal goal posts. But the criticism is "but people might get hurt." My response. Who cares? It's the world cup final.
But in response to that criticism, i have offered the expanded goal option.
Yes I"m sober. I've been saying this for years.
If you look up the history of overtime, FIFA has gone back and forth, but neither “people might get hurt” nor “golden goal would be even more dramatic” was a real concern, quite the contrary.
Drama is desirable, but when they tried the golden goal rule for a few years, what happened was that players started playing extremely defensively just to prevent the opponent from scoring, which made the game more boring, not less. The natural alternative is to keep increasing time in, say, 15 min intervals, but that doesn’t guarantee termination with a finite duration, so they went back to penalty shootouts. Penalty shootouts involve skill and nerves core to the game, so it’s not random luck, but there is greater uncertainty involved, but it’s better than a coin toss (also an approach to break ties in the group stage).
Expanding goal posts is not only too funky, it also doesn’t solve the above predicament of repeated ties or golden goal’s conservative play.
If you look up the history of overtime, FIFA has gone back and forth, but neither “people might get hurt” nor “golden goal would be even more dramatic” was a real concern, quite the contrary.
Drama is desirable, but when they tried the golden goal rule for a few years, what happened was that players started playing extremely defensively just to prevent the opponent from scoring, which made the game more boring, not less. The natural alternative is to keep increasing time in, say, 15 min intervals, but that doesn’t guarantee termination with a finite duration, so they went back to penalty shootouts. Penalty shootouts involve skill and nerves core to the game, so it’s not random luck, but there is greater uncertainty involved, but it’s better than a coin toss (also an approach to break ties in the group stage).
Expanding goal posts is not only too funky, it also doesn’t solve the above predicament of repeated ties or golden goal’s conservative play.
I'd be all willing for shrinking of the goals for overtime PK's. PK's always favor the striker and not the tender. Do it like ping-pong, keep playing until one team is ahead by two, then call it a day.
Penalty shootouts are awesome and 100x if it’s the final of the World Cup. Nothing in sports is more dramatic and exciting than pen kicks to determine WC champ.
if you don’t want to get into pen kicks then score more goals in regulation. Or stop the other team from scoring.
If you look up the history of overtime, FIFA has gone back and forth, but neither “people might get hurt” nor “golden goal would be even more dramatic” was a real concern, quite the contrary.
Drama is desirable, but when they tried the golden goal rule for a few years, what happened was that players started playing extremely defensively just to prevent the opponent from scoring, which made the game more boring, not less. The natural alternative is to keep increasing time in, say, 15 min intervals, but that doesn’t guarantee termination with a finite duration, so they went back to penalty shootouts. Penalty shootouts involve skill and nerves core to the game, so it’s not random luck, but there is greater uncertainty involved, but it’s better than a coin toss (also an approach to break ties in the group stage).
Expanding goal posts is not only too funky, it also doesn’t solve the above predicament of repeated ties or golden goal’s conservative play.
I'd be all willing for shrinking of the goals for overtime PK's. PK's always favor the striker and not the tender. Do it like ping-pong, keep playing until one team is ahead by two, then call it a day.
How is that better than the current system. the current system is awesome.
I played my first game of competitive 11 v 11 football aged 7 in the 1970s. I played continuously for teams inside and outside school in local leagues until my mid 30s. I have watched probably thousands of matches at all levels. I have read a lot about the history of the game. A lot of the worldwide appeal of football is that it is a simple game with simple rules and it needs to stay that way. Over the last few decades ideas to avoid deciding knockout games/finals with penalties have been tried, notably the silver goal and the golden goal. Statistically all that seemed to happen was to encourage more defensive play. The alternative that has not been tried is to simply play until someone scores. I understand the objections to this but interestingly I believe that in WCs before 1966, the solution was no extra time but instead have a replay the next day. Indeed the English FA cup final was like this into the 1980s.
The pen shootout we just saw was insanely awesome. why would we not want exactly that?
Have you tried asking someone to kick you as hard as possible in the shins?
That happens maybe 1 out of every 10 times, the rest of it is fake AF.
Even when it does happen, they aren't aiming for the shins, unless they want to be sent off.
No use getting offended about it!
Could you share the evidence you have on this 10% rate? How many tackles are made in a game? Bear in mind that the cameras only capture a certain amount of what is going on. A lot of the apparent fakery is based on someone feeling pain and not waiting a few seconds to see if it wears off. It is depressing that grown men seem to be unwilling to do this and even more depressing that some are doing it to get an unfair penalty against opponents.
My "offence" is simply exasperation at the stupid repetition of these inane talking points rather than "Look mate, I don't understand the game".
The pen shootout we just saw was insanely awesome. why would we not want exactly that?
Reducing this to its logical conclusion, why not as people who don't like football suggest simply dispense with the game and just have the shootout? The problem with shootouts is that they are the football equivalent of junk food, they satisfy the ignorant but are an arbitrary way of deciding a game. I believe at one world cup way, way back a group result was decided by drawing of lots. Naturally we can all find this inexplicable but is it really any worse than shootouts?
I believe at one world cup way, way back a group result was decided by drawing of lots. Naturally we can all find this inexplicable but is it really any worse than shootouts?
Penalties are dramatic and tend to favor the overall stronger team, but I'd still like to see them play until there is a winner with sudden death, if necessary, after the first two fifteen minute periods. If you like, you could maybe even bring back some of your subbed out players or get extra subs, so, for instance, France might have brought back Giroud, who I could not figure out why he was subbed out--he had four goals going into the game and created multiple good chances every game--and Argentina could have brought back DiMaria, who was the absolute key to their first two goals and was unstoppable by France.
Great post. Just play until there is a goal in the world cup final. Unlimited subs so we don’t have to hear crap about injuries.
I hated the tie in the Olympics but I hate the PKs even more. A World Cup final should NEVER end with PKs.
Repeat after me. Expand the goal 2 feet every ten minutes in overtime and first goal is a golden goal.
LRC note: Rojo started this thread before the PKs had begun. It had a slightly different title as he was talking in the present tense. We have changed the title since the game is over.
Nope!
Continue with the 2 x 15 min extra time periods, begin the extra time with both teams a man down, after 5 min each team has to remove 1 player from the field and so on. If after both periods no goal has been scored PK's can be taken. 9 times out 10 it won't make it to PK's.
On paper penalty kicks used to seem anticlimactic to me, but in this particular game it just amped up the tension and quality of the whole finale. Both Messi and Mbappe made theirs, which was a relief so they wouldn't be blamed. And Messi's looked so pedestrian, like he rolled it in, but if you watch in slow motion and with the different angles they show you, you can see he slows his movement midway in the air and doesn't make contact with the ball till he sees which way the goalie is going. He could've gone either way. That is way more skilled game IQ than barreling in a kick in an ever-expanding goal.
England's Harry Kane couldn't make his. And messed one up in regulation time. I think that means something.
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