Males Win All Medals In New Non-Binary Category at 2022 USA Cyclocross National Championships

RR Questions: Women's categories and leagues in sports were created "unnecessarily and unproductively" and are "extraneous"?

Answer: Yes! For sure, some events will have extra divisions for grins, like Clydesdale, Age groups, etc. But, they are not necessary, are incentives only for those lacking in intrinsic motivation, and are simply extra. I'm glad you are understanding.

RR Questions: Sex has nothing to [do] with sports?

Answer: Yes, again! Now you're really getting it!

RR Questions: By seeking equal opportunity to participate in sports, and rules and regulations that allow us to participate fairly and safely, the female half of the human race are the ones who "horned in"?

Answer: It is a little more nuanced than the above. It is, of course, desirable that everyone who wants to participate should have an opportunity to do so. That is NOT "horning in". However, setting up segregated divisions and calling it "equal" is definitely farcical.

RR Questions: Because you say that "people are people," we should pretend that there aren't myriad physical differences between human males and females that makes it unfair - and often unsafe - for females to have to compete in sports against males?

Answer: Now you are cooking with fire! Good job. There are a myriad of differences between male and female, yes. There are also notable differences in a well developed athlete versus lesser developed and skilled athletes. If I were to set foot on an NFL football field on Sunday, I would not last more than 1 series of downs (at MOST)! Should I demand equal playing time and opportunity within the highest levels of sport? Of course not. Is anyone keeping me from participating in the sport at the appropriate level? Nope! There is less of a chance of my being able to give birth to a baby (an awesome feat, btw) than there is of a woman outright winning a large race. Should men demand that they be treated by society as though they can? Of course not. We should appreciate the differences amongst people and strive for actual equality and fairness of treatment... not inequality and unfairness, as you do.

RR Says: Sure, Jan.

Answer: I'm glad that you understand that this is the extent of your "argument" and have basically conceded. Good for you!

How about you stop telling me what to do?

As someone capable of holding several thoughts in my head at the same time, I object to two things at once:

1) Males being allowed to use gender identity claims to horn in on female sports.

2) Gender identity ideology being used to justify the creation of a new mixed-sex non-binary sports category that advantages males and gives them extra chances to shine and win while it simultaneously disadvantages females who compete in the non-binary category, insures females will be excluded from the non-binary winners' roster and podium, and puts the physical safety and wellbeing of female athletes who compete against males in the non-binary category at risk.

Trans-identified people have been around for many decades. One of my schoolmate's dads announced he had decided to "become a woman" (and a lesbian) in 1974 - and I've personally met many other "trans people" of both sexes since then.

Most fair-minded people don't have an issue with "trans people" being accepted into mainstream society. Most reasonable people today only have an issue with males who identify as trans in women's and girls's sports - and in spaces like women's and girls' locker rooms, changing rooms, showers, saunas, spas, rape crisis centers, domestic violence refuges, prison quarters, hospital wards, nursing home rooms, etc that female people rely on to be male-free for the sake of our safety, privacy, dignity, comfort, convenience, peace of mind and mental wellbeing.

As for non-binary people: oh good grief. News flash: most people do not conform to all the sexist stereotypes and expectations associated with our sex, which means that most everyone is in some ways non-binary. However, most people wouldn't use that label or claim it as an "identity" because most of the world's human inhabitants aren't members of the Church of Genderology and therefore don't base our self-images and entire lives on the regressive, restrictive, sexist sex stereotypes that the gender identity movement is based on - and which today's gender vendors are totally invested in promoting and imposing on everyone else.

Just out of curiosity: is anyone who dismisses this stuff because its happening in a niche sport, in a low level of competition, or whatever, willing to say in advance what level of competition they would not want to allow weird gender-bendery in? Or say in advance which sports its okay in, and which sports it wouldn't be okay in? Since the excuse that it's just low-level competition so it doesn't matter is common enough, I'd like to hear some people's opinions as to where the line should be drawn. The reason I'd like to hear such opinions is so we can put a pin in them for later when, inevitably, the named level of competition has to deal with would-be gender-bending competitors. Because that day will come for every league at some point, if we just keep saying it doesn't matter "this time" because reasons. Best to know where the line should be drawn in advance so we don't have people saying, when the time comes, oh, now that level of competition is minor enough that I don't care.

Gullible libs go home devastated after getting absolutely bamboozled by gender grifters looking to get easy medals and prize money.

Wait... does it matter how a trans person looks and sounds? I thought that was irrelevant.

Is this person, for example, any more "feminine" than Molly Cameron?

If not, what was your point about posting a Molly Cameron video?

My very crude rule of thumb is whether any material benefit is involved in the competition. This includes athletic scholarships at college.

Does that mean it's okay for a DIII school to have a trans athlete? I'd say, no. College age people have plenty of opportunities to play sports outside of varsity sports. Trans people should seek for those opportunities outside of varsity competition.

Does it mean hobby jogger races need to have sex verification if it gives out small prize money? I'd say no to that as well. (We don't get tested for PEDs, either. So why should we have sex verification?)

I had a problem with NYRR giving prize money to male nonbinary runners who were slower than masters women. But if there is no prize money involved, I don't object to the category itself.

Should create some sort of… special.. kind of category for people with mental disorders. Maybe even a open division.

It's almost like you don't realize non-binaries and the slew of LGBTQ are unlikable assholes who have hijacked the government and institutions in order to solve their personal problems at the expense of everybody else.

It's funny how you complain about hate when the only things that unites the LGBTQ "community" is hate of normal people.

So you'd like to abolish the female division and instead have people perform at 'their level' regardless of sex? Congratulations- unless you want thousands of unremarkable sub-elite men and a completely unworkable gargantuan tiering system at the Olympics, you just successfully removed women from every single Olympic event except dressage and shooting. I'm sure Elaine Thompson-Herah will appreciate being allowed to run with the high school boys at local meets.

It doesn't matter how anyone looks or sounds, at least not until they try to use their supposed 'transition to female' as a reason to let them be involved in womens' sporting competitions. At that point, looking like any other man on the planet just further exposes the whole thing for the joke that it is.

Once again, you show that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Another poster brought up Molly Cameron, whom he said had "transitioned to female."

So I posted a video of Cameron asking the other poster to "explain exactly how Cameron has 'transitioned to female'." Tellingly, the other poster still has not responded.

For the record: being female and looking feminine are not the same thing. Only regressive sexists and misogynists confuse the two. Lots of female human beings are not feminine in our appearance, affect or behavior.

Since you've brought up British cyclist Emily Bridges: In case others on LRC don't know, Bridges, now 21, is a former top-ranked rider in Britain's junior male category previously named Zach who conveniently decided to "transition" in 2020-21 after injuries caused Bridges to be kicked out of the UK's national cycling academy and dashed Bridges hopes of making the men's GB team for the 2024 Paris Olympics. Soon afterwards, Bridges announced Bridges was switching gears, so to speak, and was still aiming to to fulfill Bridges' lifelong dream of making it to the 2024 Olympics - only now Bridges would do so "as a woman" competing in the female category.

But whether seen IRL or all dolled up in heavily edited and strongly filtered still and and moving pictures carefully crafted to make Bridges appear "feminine," Bridges is just as female as Molly Cameron. Meaning not at all. Not even a teeny-tiny bit.

It really is quite revealing just how much photoshopping is applied to publicity photos for Bridges.

Compare this: Publicity shot of Bridges with the actual: Reality

For those who would like a different perspective on whether or not trans women should be excluded from women’s “safe spaces,” I would encourage you all to read this piece by Janey Starling, a leading domestic violence expert in the UK. This is an issue separate from participation in athletics, but an important one.

refinery29.com

Why Trans Women Belong In Women’s Spaces

We need solidarity to create a safer world for all of us.

Open link

Her perspective appears to be ranting about 'terfs' and 'the transphobic lobby'- in what way is this a different perspective from every blue haired activist on twitter? And anyway, her article completely ignores the gargantuan elephant in the room- what's the difference between a male with a penis presenting as a woman to access support services in good faith and a male with a penis presenting as a woman to access vulnerable women/get voyeuristic kicks? When the entire concept of gender ideology is based on self-declaration, how does such a place invite one in without inviting the other?

It's like you almost get it, but then just can't come to terms with the thoroughly sexist prism through which you view the world. Instead of looking at men and women as though they are entirely different creatures, we should view them as people - all equal in value and all deserving the utmost of respect - with different giftedness and aptitudes. Then, we as society ought to encourage and promote people to do the things that they can do well. It's just that simple! (Unless you have fully been indoctrinated in the systemic sexism, which most people have been.)

It's likely true that many terrific female athletes may not appreciate being appropriately placed in divisions or categories that is commensurate with their ability (although it shouldn't feel like a demotion (because it is not), being appropriately placed would feel like it to many, unfortunately). The motto of the Olympics is "Faster, Higher, Stronger..". How well does Elaine Thompson-Herah compete against the likes of Bolt, Blake, and Lyles? Obviously, she should not be any closer to the Olympics or Olympic trials than top-tier local high school boys (as you presciently noted), but that doesn't make her any less of a person. One has to be (or should be) a stellar athlete to make it to the Olympics, and a competition of the best of the best should never be watered down with unarguably inferior athletes that have "earned" a place by virtue of something other than their ability - like their sex, age, race, disability, etc. There are spin-offs for these types of athletes, like the Jr Olympics, the Sr Olympics, and Special Olympics, so perhaps another one called the Women's (XX) Olympics could be created.

Don't bother with a lame reply.

"This isn't the way we've been doing it!" (That's quite the convincing argument because we surely have reached utopia, right?)

"This is unfair to women." (No, it is clearly the opposite. It is completely fair to everyone.)

"This does not promote women's sports!" (No, females and everyone who wants to engage in sports should be encouraged to participate from a young age, and the ones who enjoy it and have a propensity for it will find their level, just as we all have.)

The current system is sexist to the core, which foreseeably gave rise to the issues we see today. Let's rid ourselves of all the isms that have no place in a healthy, just, and high performing society.

I think the point is that trans women are the victim’s of violence at a rate that is 4 x that experienced by cis women. If there was ever a group that needs a “safe space,” it is trans women. There are no data that trans women being allowed into female bathrooms or locker rooms increases the risk that cis women will experience violence in those places. Sure there are anecdotes, but it’s these sorts of anecdotal stories that have been used for years to demonize and stigmatize other vulnerable and different groups.

Wow, misogyny has never sounded so new age and enlightened! Now get out of that basement and start telling some real life women about your theories, I'm sure they will be absolutely enthralled and supportive!

I think this is similar to where I land, and making the decision on the question of material benefit or no such benefit is a good line to draw, for an issue where no line will satisfy everyone. I think for high school competition I'm a little less certain, but a "does it lead to the state championship?" standard would be good -- essentially, trans girls on hormones could play JV or even, possibly, nonconference varsity, depending on how the state in question determines regional/state qualification or whatnot. A game/meet that is part of the road to the state title, even if its a long distance away from the state title, needs to be XX girls only, in my view. But reality has to set in at some point and we simply can't lie to trans girls by telling them they have no unfair advantage, even at the expense of a desire to include. Some things are just true, and by high school its best to be honest with kids rather than sugarcoating.

I'm not a woman and can't speak for them, but I've won a number of low-level, unimpressive local races where the prize was a 10-dollar gift card to the bagel shop or something like that, and I honestly couldn't say I'd be up in arms if those wins had been taken away because some chud on EPO showed up. Maybe a "de minimis" standard could be put in place for very small prizes, but on the other hand, EPO doping is not a 1-to-1 comparison to the trans issue.

Competitor cheating in one way is happy to cheat in a second way. Male wishing to be considered female reacts to potential setback in suspiciously male way.

Lots of layers to peel off this onion.