Petition to NCAA: 8km Race Distance for ALL at the NCAA XC Championships

I'm with you Stephanie.

That's fine. That's the population that should have a voice.

That population should be polled, or sign a petition, or ask their coaches to put forward a motion and vote for longer races.

However, that population should have no say whatsoever in what distance the men run. The men can have a voice in their own affairs.

If the men run 10k, the women can too (if that's what they and their coaches want). Or they can run 8k. Or whatever. But there's no pursuit of true equity by asking the men to make a concession.

Equity in this case is not about the race distance. Equity is:

Do the men have control of their race distance?

Do women have control of their race distance?

If the answer to both is "yes," then real equity has been achieved.

+1 Aren't women more likely to suffer stress fractures than men?

While it is true that women have a 10k race on the track, not every distance runner on the team needs to train for that 10k. Some might struggle with the increased miles. Increasing the distance of the women's XC race will be increasing the amount of training miles required for everyone, including those less able to handle it. Injuries will go up.

Stress fractures happen from not eating enough for energy output. Nothing to do with distance of a race.

Not only should men and women race the same distance, but they should race in the same races! Anyone with half a brain knows this, but just about everyone maintains their deluded self-seeking reasons why athletics should not be merit-based.

Has anyone mentioned that this specific petition is a year old and was already voted down by the NCAA?

I am all for the debate but this specific petition has already been submitted and denied. No need to sign it, it wont change anything.

txRUNNERgirl,

If you will address that post, can you address these questions, which I ask sincerely?

1) Why ask people with no vested interest to sign a petition? Shouldn't you find a way to poll the athletes to demonstrate that the effected population wants this?

2) If you want equity, why not ask to increase the women's distance to 10k? Do you believe that race is too long for women?

3) Do you think it is appropriate for people with no vested interest to try to reduce the length of the men's race? Shouldn't that be up to the coaches and male participants?

I've asked others for this but perhaps you can help.

Is there anything you could link me to (meeting minutes, for example) that show this was voted on and rejected?

(And yes, I have searched. I'm not trying to give you my homework.)

That pretty much sums it up.

Dropping the men's distance to 8k is like an implicit assumption that women can't race 10k but want to be "equal" anyway.

Let women race whichever distance they collectively agree on.

Yeah, I shared it after I saw it posted in my running club. Then realized it was started last year, however I believe they are going to resubmit if they reach 5000 signatures.

By the way, for anyone arguing about the specifics like 8K distance, I had nothing to do with creating the petition. I'm just sharing it, but I do agree that the men's and women's courses should be the same distance, whatever that would be. I wouldn't care if it was 5K, just make it the same distance.

Never mind.

I found a letter explaining why the proposal was rejected. If anyone want to read it:

equaldistance.org

Rejection Letter from Div. I, II and III NCAA Cross Country Committees. — Equal Distance

Molly Peters

August 1, 2022 VIA EMAIL Molly Peters Head Cross Country Coach Saint Michael’s College 1 Winooski Park Colchester, Vermont 05439 Dear Molly: Thank you for the proposal you submitted this past winter. The NCAA Division I, II a...

Open link

No women on my team want a longer distance and I have had very few over my career that would be in favor of it (a few LD women would probably have been).

To be fair, many of the men I work with would shorten their race if they could, but mostly just accept that 8k/10k is the standard.

The distances don't need to be equal (hurdle heights and implements weights are not). There is no need to change the women's race, it is exciting and it spreads out a decent bit. I am not in favor of changing the men's distance either, but that would make more sense given that they never run 10k before the Regional.

Interesting to note there was about a 3 min spread from winner to all but the last few competitors in the races this year, and at the current distance both races have about 1.5 finishers/second for most of that time. Both races are also densest in terms of finisher about 40-60 seconds after winner. In those terms the races are very equal.

Yes the 10K distance is easily run by both men and women in University but how many can really race the distance. 8K would lessen the training load, and bring more runners into a competitive position for the men. For the women 6K is a little short and 8K for both makes things equal for men and women racing distance.

What a bullshyte take. Take your woke crap elsewhere. Why tinker with the men’s race distance? If you want to increase the women’s distance to 8k or 10k fine. There may be technical merits to the argument that ought to be debated. But packaging the idea in an “equity” tinfoil is just stupid.

Just look at what a mess the finish line is at the women's xc champs. Go to ~17:50 to see the main pack coming in:

ncaa.com

2022 DI women's NCAA cross country championship | FULL RACE

Watch the full 6k race from the 2022 DI women's cross country championship.

Open link

Even halfway through the race the main pack is running 6-8 wide on the corners. For most runners it's basically a quarter mile sprint and then you're just stuck in a pack the rest of the race. Moving it up to 10k would allow for some separation and a lot more racing in the last couple miles.

I'm not buying the argument that you can't field a competitive women's team without a bunch of middle distance runners. The women have 50% more scholarships than the men, that means they should be able to recruit more distance specialists. The coaches are the wrong people to ask because, like most people, they are resistant to change and they've built their teams for the current distance. But everyone would be in the same boat moving forward and I think in the end it would benefit the sport as a whole.

Wouldn't a longer race require more energy output?

I'm saying the issue for stress fractures is RED-S. That doesn't mean every female athlete has that. I'm saying that is the problem to be addressed and treated. It's an entirely different subject than race distance. Healthy athletes can handle a longer distance.

Sprinters get injured too, do they not? I don't think there's a strong correlation between race distance and injury rate. Maybe average weekly mileage would go up a bit, but they'd also replace some speed workouts with much-less-stressful tempo runs.

The finish line is almost as messy for the men.

Time gaps from athlete 50 to 75 to 100 to 125:

Women: 10.5 seconds, 10.2, 9.1

Men: 13.6, 12.2 13.7

Yes, the men's field strings out a little more, but either way you are putting 25 runners across the line in 10 to 13 seconds as the main pack comes in.

This "problem" would be reduced by lengthening the women's race but made worse by shortening the men's (as this petition called for).

Either way, do we have a complaint from race officials that they can't handle the chute or that they get the results wrong because of athlete density?

We don't need a solution if there is no problem.