You would have a really tough time using a dead person's state of mind as evidence. Unless you knew 100% that the young lady had no current or previous mental health issues it would be foolish to go down that road in defense. And even if there was no history I wouldn't go there.
From CNN, the lawsuit claims she had no history of mental health issues. Sorry but I find this hard to believe. Her parents might not have known or might have missed things. (The second guessing I would be doing would be off the charts). But when people kill themselves it often comes out how they struggled. The mental health of college students has gotten progressively worse over the last couple of decades (or more college students are reporting issues) and there have been numerous college athletes who have been very open about their struggles (pro athletes as well).
Ok, now people are getting it...it may be uncertain what her state of mind was. This BS over why someone would kill themself is a complete gray area. The issue is did Stanford handle the situation in such a manner that it may have triggered something. Or did they handle it responsibly and professionally?
So now it's the university's responsibility for everything that happens to any student attending the school?
This attitude is exactly what has led to a bloating administrative class that micromanages everything on campus.
And it only does these kids a disservice in the real world.
If a student sexually assaults another student, the university has the responsibility to thoroughly investigate the issue and take proper measures against the offender. They also have the responsibility to take measures to reduce the likelihood of such offenses by their students in future.
Sexual assaults are not condoned in the "real world" either. And some people wonder why we needed #MeToo movement, and still do.
Total BS. When I was in college, I got a threatening letter telling me I was on academic probation and would be expelled from the university if I didn’t get my GPA up above 2.0 by the end of the next semester. Nobody spoke to me directly. All I got was the letter. Did I kill myself? No, I took responsibility for my actions, cut back on the partying, spent more time studying, and got my grades up. It’s called resilience. Sadly, kids these days lack it.
You were informed that expulsion may be a long-term consequence of your actions and you were told exactly what you needed to do to prevent that eventuality. Completely different from being threatened with imminent expulsion.
I once forgot to submit my rent payment and I received a notice informing me that repeated failure to pay my rent could result in penalties including eviction. Your post above is akin to equating the email I received from my property manager to getting an actual eviction notice.
So she received the notification and then killed herself the same evening. That’s not on the university - that’s the action of a mentally unstable person.
My university has the policy that we are not allowed to send emails regarding negative outcomes after 2:30pm or on weekends or public holidays. The rationale is that negative outcomes should be communicated when mental health services are available, that way a "mentally unstable person" doesn't kill themself. Its a pretty standard policy. If it is true that the email was sent outside of business hours, that is a pretty big mistake.
“Without any warning”? What kind of warning do you think the university should give? Send a student an email to warn them that a disciplinary email will be coming?
I don't particularly think that the university should be held civilly liable, but they certainly didn't handle it in the best way possible. If you are considering expelling a student, that news should be delivered face to face in an actual meeting.
I'm a program director for a medical residency, so dealing with disciplinary action is part of my job (thankfully one that comes up very infrequently). The thought of including "oh, hey, there's a chance we might kick you out of the program, but we'll talk about it later" in an email or letter to one of my residents would simply never cross my mind. The ONLY way that threat gets conveyed to someone is in a face to face meeting, and it would be accompanied by a detailed explanation of exactly how the process would unfold including any potential options to appeal.
Should the university lose a lawsuit? Probably not, at least based on the information we have. Should they be embarrassed for their lack of professionalism in the way they handled the situation? Absolutely.
This is how you disagree with a point in a civil and respectful way. Sadly, too many LRCers lack common sense and empathy while also thinking their own college experience is equivalent (e.g., having to pull up low grades) is equivalent to what happened to this young woman.
The university handled it in the most professional manner possible which is by using written communication. Verbal communication can always be misconstrued or intentionally misconveyed later.
They merely informed her of the possible punishments. Betting she would have just been put on probation had she followed through with the procedures. But for those saying that she wasn't notified, "Dee Mostofi, who is Stanford’s assistant vice president of external communications, stated that the head of the Office of Community reached out to Meyer “several days” prior to the late student-athlete receiving the formal letter. Mostofi said the OCS individual “gave Katie until that date to provide any further information for consideration,” and that Meyer “provided no information and OCS informed her on the evening of February 28 that the matter would move to a hearing.”
Stanford did nothing wrong. They sent an email letting her know that a process had been started, not ended. She still had plenty of time to participate in the process if she chose to. It appears instead she chose to just kill herself. That is on her, not Stanford. She was an adult, not a child, she didn't need any special treatment. If I get an email that an investigation is underway against me the sender didn't do anything wrong and I have plenty of time to partake in the process.
If the male student hadn't been convicted of the crime he was alleged to commit he was merely a subject so she should not have assaulted him. Even if he did the crime he committed, to a third party in the altercation, she would still be guilty of assault and the fact he happened to assault her friend isn't an excuse or even mitigating factor.
Total BS. When I was in college, I got a threatening letter telling me I was on academic probation and would be expelled from the university if I didn’t get my GPA up above 2.0 by the end of the next semester. Nobody spoke to me directly. All I got was the letter. Did I kill myself? No, I took responsibility for my actions, cut back on the partying, spent more time studying, and got my grades up. It’s called resilience. Sadly, kids these days lack it.
It was entirely your fault that your partied too much and your grade dropped below 2.0 You have absolutely no one but yourself to blame, You also knew, or should have known that you needed to maintain 2.0 GPA to stay in school.
Was it Meyer's fault that her teammate was sexually assaulted by a football player?
Do you know whether this assault was thorouhgly investigated? Do you know why no disciplinary action was taken against the football player?
Do you know if "coffee spill" was accidental or not? Do you know whether the football player suffered any physical injury as a result of coffee spill? Do you know whether the football player reported the incident as an assault to the authority? Do you know what kind of action had been taken on this "coffee spill" incident? Do you know the status of investigation on this coffee spill incident? Do you know whether she has been informed about the statuis of investigation prior to the threatening letter?
The assault has nothing to do with Meyer and it is 100% her fault, and a crime, for her to assault a person that assaulted a third party. What the football player did to her team mate is not a concern for her.
It's a valid concern for her, perhaps but we don't know the story. Maybe she was jealous, it could be anything. I am not victim blaming at all, just saying take a pause and realize there could be much more to the story.
Survivors of victims or crimes go to trial on extremely solid evidence to not get to assault the perpetrator in sexual assault cases. We do not stone people in the streets like in some countries either. If she threw the coffee intentionally it could lead to much bigger disturbances against the football team and an escalating fight. She could have started something really bad.
Typically that have a disciplinary board review before expulsion of this nature. Surprised they didn’t kick the football player out for sexual assault if proven. Clearly he was trying to claim the same (assault) against her in spite. Not sure what the email said but if it was poorly worded or misleading the school will lose.
That is part of it. The offense that should have triggered an investigation was the act of sexual battery by the football player. The idea that the university was instead investigating her response makes no sense. Was the football player part some protected class that makes sexual battery ok?
Beyond that the university seems to have acted with gross incompetence. That such a draconian letter could trigger significant emotional distress is self-evident. It needed to be handled more intelligently.
That is part of it. The offense that should have triggered an investigation was the act of sexual battery by the football player. The idea that the university was instead investigating her response makes no sense. Was the football player part some protected class that makes sexual battery ok?
Beyond that the university seems to have acted with gross incompetence. That such a draconian letter could trigger significant emotional distress is self-evident. It needed to be handled more intelligently.
These are two different cases and should be treated as such. The email to Katie pertained to her alleged assault and the sexual assault by her victim don't play into that at all. She shouldn't even be able to use it to mitigate her own case as it would be totally unattached to what she did.
Any investigation into that assault, which would be separate and unlinked to what Katie was emailed about, would be between that guy and the University. Katie would have no part at all in that case unless she witnessed it.
That's not the same as causing someone's death. Merely being within a chain of events is not causation. Imagine the absurd outcomes that would result if it were.
The incomplete info we have seems to suggest that Meyer knew she was in a lot of trouble. She had worried about it for several months. Her explanation that she had "accidentally" spilled coffee on a person (while riding a bike) who had allegedly assaulted her friend seems desperate. This accident claim would also be inconsistent with earlier claims by her parents that she had been "defending" a friend. To the contrary, it seems that any alleged assault had apparently taken place on a prior occasion and that the coffee incident may have been more of an act of revenge. She knew everything she had worked for and for which her parents were surely so proud was in serious jeopardy.
The poor parents can't understand why their daughter, who probably has been at the top of her class in everything since Kindergarten, would do this. They want to rehabilitate her memory and turn this into a conversation about campus sexual assault and university policies/procedures.
This poor girl just killed herself. Throwing coffee at someone while on a bike seems to reflect some instability in the first place. Who really knows what she had going on inside. The "fault" could be spread out any number of ways: parental expectations, macho athlete culture, genetics, social media, internal pressures, relationship status, whether she had recently consumed alcohol, pain as a result of her recent surgery, general depression, whatever. But the university didn't cause her death.
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