Incorrect. A biological female got the Golden Ticket. JJ doesn't give out the tickets; WSER does. They gave it to a female.
Kaci knew, and she finished 4th, so I'd be shocked if anyone else within shouting distance of a Golden Ticket didn't know. The raceknew.
I do appreciate how we're suddenly treating ultra broadcasts like the Super Bowl. They're usually Jamil, Billy, and Corrine, with a bunch of phone cameras that keep freezing, with tracking and commentary that goes something like "Freddy ran through Pilsner's Gulch 2 hours and 47 minutes ago, so he's either on record pace or he's been eaten by a mountain lion; we'll know in 4 hours when he gets to Klondike Porch," and now we're treating the broadcast and tracking like the Zapruder film.
Especially at Javelina. it's a FIVE-LOOP COURSE. There's no excuse for Zach not asking - if he didn't know - if the person ahead of his wife was beating her, as Riley ran past him FOUR TIMES.
By the way: it took about 12 seconds to find this: a scoreboard form the live bradcast with Riley in 2nd, and the announcers talknig about how Riley is ahead of Nicole and Brittany Peterson. So no - there wasn't any actual confusion here.
somehow, AJW knew Riley had a Golden Ticket as soon as they finished, so the announcers weren't confused.
Still wondering who was confused, other than the guy with an ax to grind, and the dopey podcast host who says things like a race that allowed non-binary runners "jumped the woke shark" and is on further examination, EXTREMELY transphobic.
For starters it definitely sounds like whoever runs their social accounts was confused. Which likely lead to the confusion others who were not at the race but were paying attention to the tracking but maybe not watching the live streams. Thats great that people at the race werent confused. Sounds like a learning opportunity for the RD. Not sure why so much hyperbole and aggression.
I mean, bulls$%t. Look at the title of the thread. the implication is that Riley changed genders once she realized she could win a Golden Ticket.
Well, to the casual viewer following the race for the entire day (and maybe to runners and crew), this is what appeared to happen because Riley wasn't in the leaderboard for the women's race all day, until after she finished. I don't think a reasonable person would actually accuse them of doing that, but at a quick glance, that could be how it looks.
None of this is Riley's fault though, since that's not at all what happened. The race admitted it was a mistake they made in the live results.
For sure, this is growing pains as races becoming more inclusive. I expect we'll see more clarity moving forward.
This is provably false, as I showed in the 2 video clips above. Even if it wasn't showing in tracking earlier, they all knew who Riley was, and were keeping an eye on her all race.
People don't show up in race results all the time. They break their bib, or put a stupid magnet on it. Imagine claiming you won the Boston Marathon because the first runner's tracking wasn't working.
This isn't a genuine agument. it's only happening because they gave a female an award that was reserved for females, and one person is trying to get hat nullified because of semantics.
This thread is really about something else, and people are tiptoeing around it….
The “non binary” category in sporting events. It just doesn’t make sense. The fact that a runner chose the non binary category for the race, but then ultimately was ok with “female” for golden ticket purposes, kind of proves this point.
BTW, It’s also true that:
1. We should be kind to people regardless of sex, gender, race, etc.. AND
2. The non-binary category in sporting events is silly.
somehow, AJW knew Riley had a Golden Ticket as soon as they finished, so the announcers weren't confused.
Still wondering who was confused, other than the guy with an ax to grind, and the dopey podcast host who says things like a race that allowed non-binary runners "jumped the woke shark" and is on further examination, EXTREMELY transphobic.
For starters it definitely sounds like whoever runs their social accounts was confused. Which likely lead to the confusion others who were not at the race but were paying attention to the tracking but maybe not watching the live streams. Thats great that people at the race werent confused. Sounds like a learning opportunity for the RD. Not sure why so much hyperbole and aggression.
The root of the issue is someone who was at the race is claiming that because Riley wasn't on the leaderbord, it unfiarly cost his wife a chance at a Golden Ticket.
Riley did the right thing here: despite being non-binary, Riley eclared as a female to be eligible for the Golden Ticket.
The race did the right thing: it demanded that runners who wanted the goldten ticket declare as male or female.
Western States did the right thing: the offered Golden Tickets by sex, not gender.
The only thing that went "wrong" here, apparently, is the timing company, which sorted runners by gender and not sex; and Zach Bitter, who said the leaderboard influenced his wife's race stratey, which is ridiculous. And now a bunch of people are saying it's not enough that JJ made a non-binary runner register as a female, or that WSER will only reward runners based on sex; Nicole Bitter should get rewarded for finishing 3rd because she lost to someone who didn't appear in the tracking early in the race, even though the reason why thhat happened is very easy to understand.
Zach Bitter says he based his wife's race plan on the live tracking, and not on his own eyes seeing the girl who was beating his wife run past over and over. That's where the learning oppotunity here is. Not on the RD. The race did just fine.
This thread is really about something else, and people are tiptoeing around it….
The “non binary” category in sporting events. It just doesn’t make sense. The fact that a runner chose the non binary category for the race, but then ultimately was ok with “female” for golden ticket purposes, kind of proves this point.
BTW, It’s also true that:
1. We should be kind to people regardless of sex, gender, race, etc.. AND
2. The non-binary category in sporting events is silly.
(and these two things can co-exist)
Absolutely correct. And if you have to have a NB category, this is the way to do it - make them declare a sex as well, and base the awards on that.
For starters it definitely sounds like whoever runs their social accounts was confused. Which likely lead to the confusion others who were not at the race but were paying attention to the tracking but maybe not watching the live streams. Thats great that people at the race werent confused. Sounds like a learning opportunity for the RD. Not sure why so much hyperbole and aggression.
The root of the issue is someone who was at the race is claiming that because Riley wasn't on the leaderbord, it unfiarly cost his wife a chance at a Golden Ticket.
Riley did the right thing here: despite being non-binary, Riley eclared as a female to be eligible for the Golden Ticket.
The race did the right thing: it demanded that runners who wanted the goldten ticket declare as male or female.
Western States did the right thing: the offered Golden Tickets by sex, not gender.
The only thing that went "wrong" here, apparently, is the timing company, which sorted runners by gender and not sex; and Zach Bitter, who said the leaderboard influenced his wife's race stratey, which is ridiculous. And now a bunch of people are saying it's not enough that JJ made a non-binary runner register as a female, or that WSER will only reward runners based on sex; Nicole Bitter should get rewarded for finishing 3rd because she lost to someone who didn't appear in the tracking early in the race, even though the reason why thhat happened is very easy to understand.
Zach Bitter says he based his wife's race plan on the live tracking, and not on his own eyes seeing the girl who was beating his wife run past over and over. That's where the learning oppotunity here is. Not on the RD. The race did just fine.
They already admitted that they screwed up on their live tracking. It also sounds like what they published on their social wasnt accurate. The OP never even mentioned Zach Bitter or what he said about any of this.
Look I am coming into this pretty unbiased, I just read through the thread. And it mostly sounds to me like they did a poor job of communicating if Riley was competing as female or non-binary and this thread seems to be mostly about that. For you its obviously about something else.
Well, to the casual viewer following the race for the entire day (and maybe to runners and crew), this is what appeared to happen because Riley wasn't in the leaderboard for the women's race all day, until after she finished. I don't think a reasonable person would actually accuse them of doing that, but at a quick glance, that could be how it looks.
None of this is Riley's fault though, since that's not at all what happened. The race admitted it was a mistake they made in the live results.
For sure, this is growing pains as races becoming more inclusive. I expect we'll see more clarity moving forward.
This is provably false, as I showed in the 2 video clips above. Even if it wasn't showing in tracking earlier, they all knew who Riley was, and were keeping an eye on her all race.
People don't show up in race results all the time. They break their bib, or put a stupid magnet on it. Imagine claiming you won the Boston Marathon because the first runner's tracking wasn't working.
This isn't a genuine agument. it's only happening because they gave a female an award that was reserved for females, and one person is trying to get hat nullified because of semantics.
I was watching the live feed for probably 75% of the day, and AJW (the commentator) was clearly confused until the last hour or so, when someone clarified things for him, and he then clarified things for the viewers. I also have a good friend who was running the race (which is why I was watching the livestream), and he was in contention for a Top 10 finish all day. He told me he and his crew (and the runners around him) assumed Riley was not eligible for the female Golden Ticket because they registered as non-binary. It didn't impact my friend, since he is a male, but still, he was running next to Riley all day and was confused, which doesn't line up with you saying that everyone at the race knew what the deal was. And simply look at Ellie Pell's tweet and the responses -- well over half of the people were confused by the situation.
You can scream and yell about how "it wasn't confusing." You can point to Kaci Lickteig who wasn't confused (because she has raced Riley multiple times and knows them personally). You can try to tell people that they were stupid for being confused. Or you can acknowledge that some people were confused and allow people the chance to make improvements next time.
Overall, you're throwing a tantrum because some people were confused and now they're asking questions and trying to understand. If those people are trying to figure out where they stand on this issue, you are just turning them away.
The root of the issue is someone who was at the race is claiming that because Riley wasn't on the leaderbord, it unfiarly cost his wife a chance at a Golden Ticket.
Riley did the right thing here: despite being non-binary, Riley eclared as a female to be eligible for the Golden Ticket.
The race did the right thing: it demanded that runners who wanted the goldten ticket declare as male or female.
Western States did the right thing: the offered Golden Tickets by sex, not gender.
The only thing that went "wrong" here, apparently, is the timing company, which sorted runners by gender and not sex; and Zach Bitter, who said the leaderboard influenced his wife's race stratey, which is ridiculous. And now a bunch of people are saying it's not enough that JJ made a non-binary runner register as a female, or that WSER will only reward runners based on sex; Nicole Bitter should get rewarded for finishing 3rd because she lost to someone who didn't appear in the tracking early in the race, even though the reason why thhat happened is very easy to understand.
Zach Bitter says he based his wife's race plan on the live tracking, and not on his own eyes seeing the girl who was beating his wife run past over and over. That's where the learning oppotunity here is. Not on the RD. The race did just fine.
They already admitted that they screwed up on their live tracking. It also sounds like what they published on their social wasnt accurate. The OP never even mentioned Zach Bitter or what he said about any of this.
Look I am coming into this pretty unbiased, I just read through the thread. And it mostly sounds to me like they did a poor job of communicating if Riley was competing as female or non-binary and this thread seems to be mostly about that. For you its obviously about something else.
Bolded the main idea here. Not sure what axe they are grinding here, but I'm not sure it's related to what the rest of us are talking about.
The root of the issue is someone who was at the race is claiming that because Riley wasn't on the leaderbord, it unfiarly cost his wife a chance at a Golden Ticket.
Riley did the right thing here: despite being non-binary, Riley eclared as a female to be eligible for the Golden Ticket.
The race did the right thing: it demanded that runners who wanted the goldten ticket declare as male or female.
Western States did the right thing: the offered Golden Tickets by sex, not gender.
The only thing that went "wrong" here, apparently, is the timing company, which sorted runners by gender and not sex; and Zach Bitter, who said the leaderboard influenced his wife's race stratey, which is ridiculous. And now a bunch of people are saying it's not enough that JJ made a non-binary runner register as a female, or that WSER will only reward runners based on sex; Nicole Bitter should get rewarded for finishing 3rd because she lost to someone who didn't appear in the tracking early in the race, even though the reason why thhat happened is very easy to understand.
Zach Bitter says he based his wife's race plan on the live tracking, and not on his own eyes seeing the girl who was beating his wife run past over and over. That's where the learning oppotunity here is. Not on the RD. The race did just fine.
They already admitted that they screwed up on their live tracking. It also sounds like what they published on their social wasnt accurate. The OP never even mentioned Zach Bitter or what he said about any of this.
Look I am coming into this pretty unbiased, I just read through the thread. And it mostly sounds to me like they did a poor job of communicating if Riley was competing as female or non-binary and this thread seems to be mostly about that. For you its obviously about something else.
No, the thread has always been about whether Riley should get the golden ticket. it's in the first and last sentences of the first post.
This is only about who qualified for that ticket. That's not for the race to decide. Laying any blame for the confusion on the race is silly - they got her sex, they gave it to WSER, and she got the ticket. The rest is just posturing.
The golden ticket is obviously a facet of it. It only seems fair to ask these questions when they race did a poor job communicating who was in contention for the golden tickets and as a golden ticket race that is sort of their job.
I don't see how its posturing. Like you are being hyperbolic and aggressive yet you are suggesting others are posturing because they are asking questions and trying to understand where the breakdown in communication was.
Given the situation, maybe the Western States race should just offer a third Golden Ticket to the 3rd place finisher. Brady still gets a ticket but so does the confused 3rd place finisher. Adding one extra slot to the race is not going to overload the field.
There is no situation. The right person got the Golden Ticket. Nicole Bitter was never going to catch Riley.
Give out an extra and you've started handing out non-binary Golden Tickets, and that door can't be shut again.
Yes, it CAN be shut again. Obviously the race did a poor job handling the place status of female runners during the race. If other competitors did not know she was in the race then that is a problem. Give a third ticket this year and then make is VERY clear in your race instructions, etc. next year how the "non-binary" category factors into the race for Golden Tickets. Make 100% sure that all competitors understand the policy that if someone declares as "non-binary" it does not exclude them from the female race.
This is provably false, as I showed in the 2 video clips above. Even if it wasn't showing in tracking earlier, they all knew who Riley was, and were keeping an eye on her all race.
People don't show up in race results all the time. They break their bib, or put a stupid magnet on it. Imagine claiming you won the Boston Marathon because the first runner's tracking wasn't working.
This isn't a genuine agument. it's only happening because they gave a female an award that was reserved for females, and one person is trying to get hat nullified because of semantics.
I was watching the live feed for probably 75% of the day, and AJW (the commentator) was clearly confused until the last hour or so, when someone clarified things for him, and he then clarified things for the viewers. I also have a good friend who was running the race (which is why I was watching the livestream), and he was in contention for a Top 10 finish all day. He told me he and his crew (and the runners around him) assumed Riley was not eligible for the female Golden Ticket because they registered as non-binary. It didn't impact my friend, since he is a male, but still, he was running next to Riley all day and was confused, which doesn't line up with you saying that everyone at the race knew what the deal was. And simply look at Ellie Pell's tweet and the responses -- well over half of the people were confused by the situation.
You can scream and yell about how "it wasn't confusing." You can point to Kaci Lickteig who wasn't confused (because she has raced Riley multiple times and knows them personally). You can try to tell people that they were stupid for being confused. Or you can acknowledge that some people were confused and allow people the chance to make improvements next time.
Overall, you're throwing a tantrum because some people were confused and now they're asking questions and trying to understand. If those people are trying to figure out where they stand on this issue, you are just turning them away.
"Asking questions." That they didn't ask at the race. Did your imaginary friend who ran next to Riley for 14 hours ask Riley? Did Nicole Bitter ask race organizers who Riley was? or did they all just asume that the person running ahead at sub-15 pace was just a rando non-binary freak who wasn't eligible for any prizes?
Is that what you assumed too? You watched 12 hours of a livestream with someone running top 10 all day - did you ever look up their history, see they won 5 races ASA A FEMALE this summer, and think they might be getting ignored? Or did you just erase all that becaue it's a non-binary runner? And now you're just "asking questions" instead of admiting that no, all of you could have easily understood what happened, but it's easier to be"confused,' because then you can erase the entire issue.
I'm not a fan of the whole non-binary thing. I actually don't believe in it. But a lot of people who could have easily figured out that Riley qualified as a female are now hiding behind "confusion" and "just asking questions" instead of using an ounce of common sense.
There is no situation. The right person got the Golden Ticket. Nicole Bitter was never going to catch Riley.
Give out an extra and you've started handing out non-binary Golden Tickets, and that door can't be shut again.
Yes, it CAN be shut again. Obviously the race did a poor job handling the place status of female runners during the race. If other competitors did not know she was in the race then that is a problem. Give a third ticket this year and then make is VERY clear in your race instructions, etc. next year how the "non-binary" category factors into the race for Golden Tickets. Make 100% sure that all competitors understand the policy that if someone declares as "non-binary" it does not exclude them from the female race.
The race doesn't give out the Golden Ticket. WSER gives it out to to the race finishers based on WSER criteria.
It's already "very clear" how the non-binary category factors into the race for Golden Tickets: it doesn't.
"The top two individual finishers for both the men’s and women’s races in the annual series of HOKA Golden Ticket Races automatically qualify for entry into Western States."
If a person is entered into the women's race and finish top 2, they qualify. Whether they're in a non-binary category doesn't matter any more than whether they're in the 70-79 category.
It has nothing to do with live tracking, or leaderboards. Riley entered the women's race. she knew she needed to to get the Golden Ticket. The race knows she was in the women's race. She finished 2nd. She gets in. There's no confusion.
Literally nobody else was confused here, and nothing needs to be fixed.
That's false. I was following the race from afar, and I was totally confused, and was until I read this thread. Granted, it may not matter in the grand scheme, because I was neither running for a Golden Ticket (sitting on my couch at home) nor do I have a dog in the fight. But I *was* curious how the race was shaking out, and assumed Nicole got the ticket based on the female race results posted online, with Riley in the non-binary division. That is, until the "official" results showed Riley in second and Nicole in third.
I don't blame Riley for any of this, and think Aravaipa totally screwed it up. If they want to grant people the ability to honor their gender and enter the non-binary division, great. But when the Golden Tickets go to "male" and "female," then the non-binary racers need to appear in the relevant category in real time. I'm not going to second guess (as you did) whether Zach B was actually confused; he may or may not have been. But the reality is, sooner or later someone will be, so this flaw in the system needs to be fixed before that happens (again), with real consequences (I'll give you credit for the supposition that Nicole B couldn't have run fast enough to make the difference here).
My girlfriend dropped out after more then 100 km and was running whole the race before her.. she never knew that she was running for a golden ticket.. nobody from the crew knew that she was running for a golden ticket....
I'm not a fan of the whole non-binary thing. I actually don't believe in it. But a lot of people who could have easily figured out that Riley qualified as a female are now hiding behind "confusion" and "just asking questions" instead of using an ounce of common sense.
So what is it that you have at stake here that you seem so upset over this? Why is it so hard to admit that the race did a poor job of communicating who was in contention for the top spots? Are you a volunteer from the race or have some other personal stake in this?
My girlfriend dropped out after more then 100 km and was running whole the race before her.. she never knew that she was running for a golden ticket.. nobody from the crew knew that she was running for a golden ticket....
Cool story. Did she know all the women who were? How? if she knew all those, how did she not know Riley was? Who did she ask? Did she investigate? Because it wasn't hard to find out, if one cared.
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