Also, if I figured out who your kid is, and he really is running a 29.11 last 200m in a 3000m, you probably shouldn't worry about cadence. He's not taking 7.82' steps at 173 to run that.
Best of luck with everything.
You see that video? Sometimes he does crazy things like that. Personally I like the 59.64 final 400m he ran to close out his 1500m PR.
it is surprising he can run like that but is stuck on 13:59 at VCP. what kind of mileage is he doing?
do you think he might be more of an 800/1500 kind of talent?
You see that video? Sometimes he does crazy things like that. Personally I like the 59.64 final 400m he ran to close out his 1500m PR.
Didn't see the video - just amazed they have 200m splits in the AAU/USATF results. If you do have a video, you can figure out the cadence at the end there (combo of tap tempo app, or counting steps per set time or number of video frames per step or group of steps based on video frame rate).
You see that video? Sometimes he does crazy things like that. Personally I like the 59.64 final 400m he ran to close out his 1500m PR.
it is surprising he can run like that but is stuck on 13:59 at VCP. what kind of mileage is he doing?
do you think he might be more of an 800/1500 kind of talent?
He runs up and down to his competition. The 13:59 was from a youth race he won by 20 seconds so who knows how hard he was really pushing. I think he should be around 13:15 at VCP but those roller coaster hills aren't his thing.
Over the summer he was high 60s/low 70s miles per week. We started following what Ingebrigtsen does with the double threshold days and one hill workout per week.
On the track he is definitely a 1500m guy even though we focus most of his training around 5k pace work. When he ran his 4:10 1500m and 4:29 mile races he hadn't even run a sub 70 400m in practice that season. Only real fast thing he ran was one workout of 6 or 8 x 300m in about 45-46.
One thing he has going for him is he got his mother's Irish stubbornness. I think that's where this ridiculously dangerous finishing kick comes from. I know he didn't get it from me because I was always the guy that got ran down at the end of races.
180 spm isn't some mythical gold standard. The science behind it is flimsy. Everyone is built differently and has different optimal stride rates/lengths. More steps per minute doesn't magically give you speed - you have to compensate by taking shorter strides, and the result may or may not be faster or any better for your son.
Your son needs a coach. Let the coach do his job.
Your son needs a dad. Stick to your job. If your son is feeling off in a workout and isn't having a great season, you can help by showing support, sympathy and confidence. Or you can compound the problem and create new ones by expressing frustration and disappointment.
This.
Jack Daniels has a lot to answer for....or maybe people do not have the common sense to realise he measured some elites within a narrow pace range
it is surprising he can run like that but is stuck on 13:59 at VCP. what kind of mileage is he doing?
do you think he might be more of an 800/1500 kind of talent?
He runs up and down to his competition. The 13:59 was from a youth race he won by 20 seconds so who knows how hard he was really pushing. I think he should be around 13:15 at VCP but those roller coaster hills aren't his thing.
Over the summer he was high 60s/low 70s miles per week. We started following what Ingebrigtsen does with the double threshold days and one hill workout per week.
On the track he is definitely a 1500m guy even though we focus most of his training around 5k pace work. When he ran his 4:10 1500m and 4:29 mile races he hadn't even run a sub 70 400m in practice that season. Only real fast thing he ran was one workout of 6 or 8 x 300m in about 45-46.
One thing he has going for him is he got his mother's Irish stubbornness. I think that's where this ridiculously dangerous finishing kick comes from. I know he didn't get it from me because I was always the guy that got ran down at the end of races.
who knows how he'll turn out, but he's definitely more of a mid d guy right now. I had a 1:58/4:31 guy go 12:52 at VCP, and that is not too far off from what I see from other guys. I also see similar guys go 13:20 range.
that threshold stuff can be funny with kids too. I have a 9:18/4:13 guy who struggles to hit high volume threshold paces in practice. Put in him in a team jersey in a junk dual meet, and he'll run a 3200 at that pace literally without breaking a sweat.
just have to believe the pay off is going to be there in the end.
It was Daniels that came up with that? So I'm guessing that 180 steps per minute probably was at faster than average pace?
I appreciate his research but I have never been a big fan even though I read his book. I always thought he took undertrained D3 college girls and ran them alot and they eventually produced good enough results to win at nationals.
I do think his work led to what Tinman, the Ingebrigtsens, and many others do today in regards to threshold and tempo runs in training.
It was Daniels that came up with that? So I'm guessing that 180 steps per minute probably was at faster than average pace?
I appreciate his research but I have never been a big fan even though I read his book. I always thought he took undertrained D3 college girls and ran them alot and they eventually produced good enough results to win at nationals.
I do think his work led to what Tinman, the Ingebrigtsens, and many others do today in regards to threshold and tempo runs in training.
i am forever indebted to daniels for getting me started as a know nothing coach a long time ago. i believe it's the organization of his book that has made him so wildly popular. it's easily the most well put together running book I own. though i have long since moved on from his basic philosophy/structure.
i would still give the book a rec to a new coach with zero knowledge and a drive to succeed.
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