It's impossible and yet, statistically, the most probable.
It's impossible and yet, statistically, the most probable.
That course gets no respect. One year its too slow because of the cornfield effect. Another year its too fast because its too dry.
“… People are just way better now. Maybe the shoes, maybe the two years of no racing during covid (no peaking just training, fewer injuries) but times across the board from high schoolers to the pros are way better than they were before COVID.”
I think we’re also seeing the migration of more aggressive training regimens — that used to be exclusive to the college level — progressively into high schools and (in some cases) below.
That race has gotten so massive. With a field of over 400, you're going well under 5 from the get go. The ones who can hold it run in the 24s. Its nothing more than a bunch of good teams all lining up at the same time on a relatively fast course.
vmg wrote:
“… People are just way better now. Maybe the shoes, maybe the two years of no racing during covid (no peaking just training, fewer injuries) but times across the board from high schoolers to the pros are way better than they were before COVID.”
I think we’re also seeing the migration of more aggressive training regimens — that used to be exclusive to the college level — progressively into high schools and (in some cases) below.
I used to be a 100% "it's the shoes" guy...now I'm like 75%.
The shoes are allowing for better training and post race recovery, athletes are more regimented and they're more willing to do the little things. Some teams were doing this 10-15 years, sure, but it's getting harder and harder to get by without really doing things the right way.
I'm an old guy still training and racing and learning a lot from the kids. They're just doing it better.
BDJ69 wrote: It's almost impossible for someone to run the exact measured distance on a certified course. They would have to run step-by-step the same course on the exact path that was measured. Deviating a few feet from the course here and there a few times (passing, water tables, etc.) adds up over the the entirety of the race. Everyone always thinks they are cutting the tangents, running the shortest path, etc. It's statistically improbable that a runner takes the exact same path as it was measured.
Yes...true. And to be fair...the certifiers are really, really strict in the way they measure. I don't think anyone could match what they do.
I guess over years and years of observing...when I see a device measuring a course at the exact advertised distance...I got in the habit of assuming it's just slightly short...cause it usually is. But it's certainly not a big deal.
if lehigh is a little short, then what is lock haven?? there should be threads about that course too. look at peoples' times there and then compare to other courses...including lehigh. it is hilariously short.
vmg wrote:
“… People are just way better now. Maybe the shoes, maybe the two years of no racing during covid (no peaking just training, fewer injuries) but times across the board from high schoolers to the pros are way better than they were before COVID.”
I think we’re also seeing the migration of more aggressive training regimens — that used to be exclusive to the college level — progressively into high schools and (in some cases) below.
There's so much access now. In the 80s and 90s the average XC runner had to go to XC camp to learn tips from elite teams/coaches. Now with a generation having absorbed all of the FloTrack training videos and other resources it has way upped the game.
I can recall my kids relaying a story to me talking to some of their local xc kids from other high schools during a get together and their was buzz from many of the other runners saying things like "Whoa, did you see that Great Oak training video?"
So now many of these kids incorporate that style into their training so that they can run Great Oak times. You can even go back to the Arcadia team training video then CBA, etc.
More training knowledge, garmins, shoe advances and so forth.
College kids listen to their coaches. Not online Flotrack videos
And where do you think a lot of coaches learn from, all the free resources on the internet.
A coach that was there wrote:
As funny as it sounds, it will make it hard for me to want to take my own team back the next few years. I don’t see us getting lucky and things lining up that nicely again.
I get this completely. I've been taking teams for almost ten years (and the previous coach before that), and Friday was as perfect as it gets. We also race there for our District 1 championship, and I've already talked with my team about how it is very unlikely that conditions will be as fast in a month.
y4thrg wrote:
if lehigh is a little short, then what is lock haven?? there should be threads about that course too. look at peoples' times there and then compare to other courses...including lehigh. it is hilariously short.
The Lock Haven course is entirely flat as a pancake. Yet it’s surrounded by a cool temperature mountain environment. Why are fast course immediately deemed short. They’re lots of environmental and competition factors in XC to determine how fast a meet is.